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I've shot tons of this through my first generation Glock 17 with no issue and I love it. It's what I was carrying for awhile for penetration in the winter time. It worked surprisingly well in tests. Really hoping my Sub-2000 eats it. Who carries American Eagle in the Lower 49? I just moved to Vermont from Alaska and I used to buy it from my work all the time.
 

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today I found this box on the left, at Walmart. Previously I have only seen the 147gr. in the Flat Point variation.

This seemingly new 147gr. AE has a "Total Metal Jacket" (ball) as well as "Toxic-Metal Free Primers."

 

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today I found this box on the left, at Walmart. Previously I have only seen the 147gr. in the Flat Point variation.

This seemingly new 147gr. AE has a "Total Metal Jacket" (ball) as well as "Toxic-Metal Free Primers."

I think it's a "totally green" thing. The primers are no longer supposed to contain any lead. I don't know what to tell you about the tip. Maybe the same thing.
 

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With primers, its actually that they used to contain mercury and lead if I recall. I have to say I'm going to be disappointed if they switched over to round nose 147 grain. That flat point causes more damage, especially in a heavier bullet, than a round nose at any weight.

I think several tests have shown that 147 grain JHPs at any kind of normal velocity for that bullet weight simply won't expand as well as a 124 or 132 grain JHPs. It really becomes an issue of being able to pack enough powder into the case that will generate the required velocity for expansion and the much, much bigger 147 grain bullet that also has to somehow have a hollow cavity in the front. And all fit into the overall profile of 9mm Parabellum. I'm not saying they wouldn't hurt mind you. I carried 147 grain flat points for the specific purpose of penetration and dumping energy into the target using a lightweight caliber.

Nothing is free when it comes to firearms design.
 

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Thanks for the info, Colonel.
So by your assessment,the flat point 147gr. AE would probably be equal to or better than the 147 gr. JHP Ranger-T's?
 

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With primers, its actually that they used to contain mercury and lead if I recall. I have to say I'm going to be disappointed if they switched over to round nose 147 grain. That flat point causes more damage, especially in a heavier bullet, than a round nose at any weight.

I think several tests have shown that 147 grain JHPs at any kind of normal velocity for that bullet weight simply won't expand as well as a 124 or 132 grain JHPs. It really becomes an issue of being able to pack enough powder into the case that will generate the required velocity for expansion and the much, much bigger 147 grain bullet that also has to somehow have a hollow cavity in the front. And all fit into the overall profile of 9mm Parabellum. I'm not saying they wouldn't hurt mind you. I carried 147 grain flat points for the specific purpose of penetration and dumping energy into the target using a lightweight caliber.

Nothing is free when it comes to firearms design.
Interesting opinion...

I carry 147gr RA9Ts in my 3" barrel Kahr CM9 for the added penetration they offer and the fact that they are designed to open up their slower velocities. Winchester actually recommends the use of 147gr ammo in shorter barrels b/c of this. It's the lighter 115gr and 124gr jhps that are velocity dependent. The older 147gr jhps were also very velocity dependent, but the new breed (RA9T, RA9B, Federal HST, Gold Dot) are designed much better.

Anyway, the idea of a flat nose 147gr bullet is interesting. I plan on actually testing some 147gr hps out of my new Sub2K next month, when I'll be on my father in-law's land. I'll try to report back then. It should be interesting to see how they perform w/ the extra 150-200 fps.
 

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I think the toxic free primers and TMJ bullets are a concession to environmental concerns, and to cut down on toxic vapors at indoor ranges. I know I personally don't like to shoot at indoor ranges, because I always have an irritated throat when I leave. Regardless of what kind of ventilation system they may be using.
 

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Interesting opinion...

I carry 147gr RA9Ts in my 3" barrel Kahr CM9 for the added penetration they offer and the fact that they are designed to open up their slower velocities. Winchester actually recommends the use of 147gr ammo in shorter barrels b/c of this. It's the lighter 115gr and 124gr jhps that are velocity dependent. The older 147gr jhps were also very velocity dependent, but the new breed (RA9T, RA9B, Federal HST, Gold Dot) are designed much better.

Anyway, the idea of a flat nose 147gr bullet is interesting. I plan on actually testing some 147gr hps out of my new Sub2K next month, when I'll be on my father in-law's land. I'll try to report back then. It should be interesting to see how they perform w/ the extra 150-200 fps.

I was mostly referring to your standard run-of-the-mill JHP types. There are quite a few specially designed bullets out there (Ranger, HydraShok, Gold Dot, Hornady's polymer tipped varieties, others) for low velocity opening that can perform fairly well in tests. The problem with those is that if you design them to open at a lower velocity they'll be impacted more by things like clothing and other material that might get in the way like glass. I know of several incidents where police officers have had to fire through the front windshield of a car. While this is less likely to occur as a civilian people have been mugged by criminals driving up next to them on the street and shoving a gun at them. Here's a short video of someone doing some amateur testing of the RA9T bullets and shows a good example of how low velocity hollow points can suddenly fill with material and become less effective. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xY05GU8ZNfc"]Winchester Ranger SXT 9mm 147 gr (RA9T) Test with Denim[/ame]

The reason why flat points (called the meplat) are better than a round or pointed type are multiple. First, that flat point means that anything in front of it has to suddenly accelerate at a right angle out of the way of the bullet and the wider that point is the further it has to move to get out of the way causing more trauma. This is how hollowpoints can have a greater immediate effect on target than simply causing a larger permanent wound channel. Secondly, when that sharply angled corner contacts a surface it is more likely to tip forward and down into the barrier than a pointed bullet would and less likely to skip off. This animation is for tank shells but the concept is the same. (apparently I can't display gifs on the forum so click the link, if you will)

Projectile Turnover

Believe me, I'm not saying these American Eagle 147 grain flat points are some sort of wonder cartridge or that they're better than a good hollowpoint at causing trauma. I've simply found them to be a more appropriate choice in certain carry situations when I was in Alaska. Now that I'm not worrying about large animals all the time, or people wearing very heavy winter clothing, I probably won't be actively carrying them as much. Right now my Glock 17 has 124 grain Speed GoldDot JHPs (23618) loaded into it. People should really consider having a selection of ammunition for different expected circumstances. I understand training with one gun, one type of ammunition, etc. The biggest difference in the ammunition category is different velocities and that only really matters if your circumstances might involve shooting at something past social distances.
 

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I was mostly referring to your standard run-of-the-mill JHP types. There are quite a few specially designed bullets out there (Ranger, HydraShok, Gold Dot, Hornady's polymer tipped varieties, others) for low velocity opening that can perform fairly well in tests. The problem with those is that if you design them to open at a lower velocity they'll be impacted more by things like clothing and other material that might get in the way like glass. I know of several incidents where police officers have had to fire through the front windshield of a car. While this is less likely to occur as a civilian people have been mugged by criminals driving up next to them on the street and shoving a gun at them. Here's a short video of someone doing some amateur testing of the RA9T bullets and shows a good example of how low velocity hollow points can suddenly fill with material and become less effective. Winchester Ranger SXT 9mm 147 gr (RA9T) Test with Denim

The reason why flat points (called the meplat) are better than a round or pointed type are multiple. First, that flat point means that anything in front of it has to suddenly accelerate at a right angle out of the way of the bullet and the wider that point is the further it has to move to get out of the way causing more trauma. This is how hollowpoints can have a greater immediate effect on target than simply causing a larger permanent wound channel. Secondly, when that sharply angled corner contacts a surface it is more likely to tip forward and down into the barrier than a pointed bullet would and less likely to skip off. This animation is for tank shells but the concept is the same. (apparently I can't display gifs on the forum so click the link, if you will)

Projectile Turnover

Believe me, I'm not saying these American Eagle 147 grain flat points are some sort of wonder cartridge or that they're better than a good hollowpoint at causing trauma. I've simply found them to be a more appropriate choice in certain carry situations when I was in Alaska. Now that I'm not worrying about large animals all the time, or people wearing very heavy winter clothing, I probably won't be actively carrying them as much. Right now my Glock 17 has 124 grain Speed GoldDot JHPs (23618) loaded into it. People should really consider having a selection of ammunition for different expected circumstances. I understand training with one gun, one type of ammunition, etc. The biggest difference in the ammunition category is different velocities and that only really matters if your circumstances might involve shooting at something past social distances.
That test uses the old ranger 147 sxts, NOT the newer RA9ts, just saying, they were re-designed to work better. the sxts were very velocity dependent. A great many PD depts use the newer 147gr loads. In my opinion, a well designed 147gr jhp is the pinnacle of 9mm sd loadings, but I don't at all feel undergunned w/ a 124gr+p load or 115gr +p+ load. I just personally feel the 147gr offers the best performance with less wear and tear on the weapon.

Look up some Federal/Speer testing regarding the 147gr speer gold dot and 147gr hst-those 2 rounds (especially the 147gr hst were the best 9mm performers even through auto glass). long video, but very informative (much more so than some you tube commando):

http://le.atk.com/general/irl/videos.aspx

in the end, there's no magic bullet, just good shot placement.
 
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