[razz]

From the FBI 10mm test http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi_10mm_notes.pdf

What is the best round in?

.380 - There isn't one. The full metal jacketed round is the best of a bad choice, but only because it might penetrate.

 

[Bobo]

This was published in 1990 I beleive. Since then much better expanding and penetrating bullets and loads have been developed including; Cor-Bon DPX, Double Tap Gold Dot, Remington Golden Saber, and Winchester Ranger. All these rounds though still mariginal in penetration have excellent expansion capabilities.

In the end, the .380 round is right on the edge of whether an expanding or a non-expanding bullet is best.

For this reason I mix them in my carry magazines.

And BTW .380 is the only round I would mix. Above .380 would be all JHP, below .380 I probably wouldn't carry unless I absolutely had to, but if I had to they would all be FMJ.

Just my 2 cents...
Bobo

 

[fatman]

I'm not in the FBI.  I probably will not be shooting at BGs behind barricade's in a self defense situation.  In the event that the BG gets an arm between my gun and his vitals it will probably be his gun arm.  For these reasons among others I shoot DPX hp in my P3AT. Not that it matters much.

 

[Packer]

I agree with Bobo 100%, but I'm not starting up this old argument again. Let the horse R.I.P.

Packer.

 

[cclem700]

  I agree with Bobo 100%, but I'm not starting up this old argument again. Let the horse R.I.P.

Packer.

:-X

 

[Syndil]

Wow only 1 post and it's a freakin' landmine!

razz, FWIW, people are sick and tired of hearing me preach the gospel of FMJ. But just about every argument for and against it has already been made. There are quite a few of us who agree with the FBI's logic (myself included of course) and carry only FMJ in the smaller calibers. The others just don't wanna hear it. ;D

Welcome to KTOG!

 

[JFB]

I think these word say it best
[quote author=fatman  link=1171263622/15#24 date=1171405282]...the most important function of a small pocket pistol is to remind us we are in a dangerous world and that we should be alert at all times and avoid risky situations where conflict might occur.  If we have to draw the gun we are down to our last defensive line with a less than adequate weapon. In that case I doubt that we will be able to draw much comfort from having FMJ or JHP or interleaved ammo.  We would probably be wishing we had thought more about how to avoid being there at all and less about the ammo we use.[/quote]

 

[Step5pro]

I think these word say it best
[quote author=fatman  link=1171263622/15#24 date=1171405282]...the most important function of a small pocket pistol is to remind us we are in a dangerous world and that we should be alert at all times and avoid risky situations where conflict might occur.  If we have to draw the gun we are down to our last defensive line with a less than adequate weapon. In that case I doubt that we will be able to draw much comfort from having FMJ or JHP or interleaved ammo.  We would probably be wishing we had thought more about how to avoid being there at all and less about the ammo we use.

[/quote]


+1

 

[Syndil]

I think these word say it best
[quote author=fatman  link=1171263622/15#24 date=1171405282]...the most important function of a small pocket pistol is to remind us we are in a dangerous world and that we should be alert at all times and avoid risky situations where conflict might occur.  If we have to draw the gun we are down to our last defensive line with a less than adequate weapon. In that case I doubt that we will be able to draw much comfort from having FMJ or JHP or interleaved ammo.  We would probably be wishing we had thought more about how to avoid being there at all and less about the ammo we use.

[/quote]
I disagree. The most important function of a pocket pistol is not to remind us we are in a dangerous world. I did not buy my P-32 to be a string around my finger, I bought it to for the purpose for which it was made, which is to put enough lead into a person to stop them from doing me harm. That is the most important function of any weapon used for self-defense, to stop the attacker. So I want my pocket pistol to be as effective as possible, should I ever need to use it. If I ever do have to actually draw my pistol, I can guarantee you I won't be philosiphizing about the dangers of society. The thoughts going through my head will probably be more along the lines of "DIE M*****F*****!" or if I am carrying JHP, "WHY WON'T YOU DIE M*****F*****!"  ;D

 

[Roger3]

Thats a very interesting document.

 

[jackde3]

Put cyanide in a hollow point and cover it with a drop of bees wax
Then you wont have to worry so much about penetration.

 

[Sangueffusor]

You'd probably die of blood loss before the cyanide took effect! :

 

[burley]

This was published in 1990 I beleive. Since then much better expanding and penetrating bullets and loads have been developed including; Cor-Bon DPX, Double Tap Gold Dot, Remington Golden Saber, and Winchester Ranger. All these rounds though still mariginal in penetration have excellent expansion capabilities.

In the end, the .380 round is right on the edge of whether an expanding or a non-expanding bullet is best.

For this reason I mix them in my carry magazines.

And BTW .380 is the only round I would mix. Above .380 would be all JHP, below .380 I probably wouldn't carry unless I absolutely had to, but if I had to they would all be FMJ.

Just my 2 cents...
Bobo

+1

 

[Captiva]

I want to see a test on mountain goats before I switch bullets.

 

[Spikejerk]

Put cyanide in a hollow point and cover it with a drop of bees wax

I always thought a drop of mercury would be a particularly nasty option.

 

[c0wboi38]

There are quite a few of us who agree with the FBI's logic

The fbi has logic?!



;D

 

[nicneufeld]

[quote author=jackde3 link=1188483982/0#10 date=1188505944]Put cyanide in a hollow point and cover it with a drop of bees wax

I always thought a drop of mercury would be a particularly nasty option.
[/quote]

While we're off topic with "Self Defense Loads To Get You Sued Into The Stone Age", what if you filled a hollowpoint core with white phosphorous and sealed it immediately?

Or am I getting confused with the element sodium, which can ignite violently with air or water...

 

[Packer]

  Well this is an interesting new slant to an old topic.

  While we're contemplating illegal loads: How about a little NAPALM sealed into that hollowpoint?   Can you envision the reloading process if it involved milking a poisonous snake into a bullet cavity?  I'll bet even CLARK, without doubt the bravest KTOGer, would shy away from that!

Packer.

 

[nicneufeld]

Crossing the napalm idea with the pyrophoric Sodium idea, and we have:


(From wikipedia)

Thickened pyrophoric agent (TPA)
Triethylaluminium thickened with polyisobutylene is used as an incendiary weapon, as a pyrophoric alternative to napalm, e.g. in the M74 rockets for the M202A1 launchers. [1] In this application it is known as TPA, for thickened pyrotechnic agent or thickened pyrophoric agent.

from another site:
Each rocket consists of an M235 warhead, containing approximately 1.34 pounds (0.61 kg) of thickened pyrophoric agent (TPA), an M434 fuze, and an adapter, which adapts an M54 rocket motor to the warhead. The TPA is triethylaluminum (TEA), a substance similar to white phosphorus, which burns spontaneously when exposed to air at temperatures between 1400-2200 degrees Fahrenheit.

Yikes!

 

[Packer]

I've been out-napalmed! Any takers on the snake-milking?

Packer.