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I have a new P3AT with 100 rounds thru it.  Functioned perfectly except when I insert a new mag and rack the slide back, simply releasing the slide won't chamber the first round.  When firing there is sufficient recoil to load without fail.  But I have to nudge the slide forward with the palm of my hand to get the first one in.  I did a thorough fluff and buff, including dremmeling with jeweler's rouge on the ramp til it shines enough to see me smiling.  Before the range I gave it a good cleaning, oiled and lithium greased following the suggestions on the board. I used both Rem 88g JHP and Magtech FMJ, and the hangup is the same.  I like this little Bug, but would like to resolve this anomaly.  

Has anyone here experienced this issue, and what do you suggest for a solution?

Great forum, interesting topics, and many helpful responses.  Thanks everyone.
 

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Welcome and yes, there is A LOT of great info here. There is good info for the asking, but you will do great to also read the threads a lot more closely as you will find that this is a very common occurence and nothing to be concerned about. You can improve it, but often not eliminate it. Some people only shoot 6 (or 7 if they have a plus 1) and then reload leaving one in the chamber as they are afraid of this in an emergency. In reality, once you learn to really slingshot the slide and have a polished feed ramp you will be just fine.

Again, 3-400 more rounds. As much for you as for the weapon! And order some washers as necessary. Hear that NAS - WASHERS!

-Scott
 

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mtdt said:
Has anyone here experienced this issue, and what do you suggest for a solution?

Yep, live with it.

Mine does that every so often. Usually when I don't slingshot the release of the slide just right. Not a problem. Usually just takes a touch with my thumb to get it to go on in.
 

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Same with mine, if I don't rack it energetically enough it can hang up sometimes. I just leave one round chambered, and start with 6+1, shoot 6 and ready to go each time. Have put about 1500 rounds thru it and only one failure, a FTFire from a light strike. In my opinion "no problem".
 

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mtdt said:
I have a new P3AT with 100 rounds thru it. Functioned perfectly except when I insert a new mag and rack the slide back, simply releasing the slide won't chamber the first round. When firing there is sufficient recoil to load without fail. But I have to nudge the slide forward with the palm of my hand to get the first one in. I did a thorough fluff and buff, including dremmeling with jeweler's rouge on the ramp til it shines enough to see me smiling. Before the range I gave it a good cleaning, oiled and lithium greased following the suggestions on the board. I used both Rem 88g JHP and Magtech FMJ, and the hangup is the same. I like this little Bug, but would like to resolve this anomaly.

Has anyone here experienced this issue, and what do you suggest for a solution?

Great forum, interesting topics, and many helpful responses. Thanks everyone.
Hi MTDT,

Here is a synopsis and ShatHause diagnosis of what is happening when you load your first round from the magazine.

Hopefully you fully understand how ammo is taken from the magazine; The nose heads up the feed ramp into the chamber while the rim slides up the breech face, rim moving behind the extractor and finally moving into battery with the round chambered. The round moving UP and forward, not merely being stripped off of the top of the mag up and into the chamber. The lips of the magazine also offer resistance to this process, a polish of them helps get things moving too.

The problem you describe is exactly what was happening with my new P3 (and more before this one!), it can be a couple of things, more than likely a combination of two or three. A strong magazine spring ,the need to polish the face of your breech, bottom of extractor (bevel'd area) and feed ramp will help offset the grip the mag lips and mag spring has on the first round.

The act of the cartridge sliding up the face of the breech behind the extractor from underneath the mag feed lips causes a considerable amount of friction; This friction robs the slide mass and spring of momentum and stored energy (spring).

A good feed ramp AND breech face polish job will do much to overcome your over zealous magazine spring until it weakens a little over time, besides, its fun, teaches you more about your gun, enhances reliability and smooths operation, downside? Nada.

As a note and point of procedure;

NEVER manually load the chamber of an Auto anything with a cartridge, now that we know the rim of the cartridge slides up and behind the extractor, manually loading a round and slamming the slide home on it would make the extractor have to "jump the rim" to close, not good for Mr. extractor to say the least.

As a matter of practice I will load 3 or so rounds into the mag, insert, rack slide and eject the mag to finish loading it. This cheats the gun of the problem
until the mag spring weakens slightly to allow the pistol to load the top round in a fully loaded magazine.

Get in the habit of Briskly charging the slide with your weak hand, grasping it with your off hand, thumb coming back towards your body, there are instruction all over about this, I digress.


Tap, Rack, Bang; 8 out of 10 times if you sharply smack the bottom of your magazine with your weak hand , most times the gun will go into battery in the situation described happens.

T-R-B, IS the textbook response for this event and should be practiced until it is reflexive. Tactically people will argue the point that after a TAP you should RACK, I disagree, if situational awareness is such that you know the gun has fed a live round into the chamber, the gun has fully locked up, you don't need to cartwheel a perfectly good cartridge into the air, wasting time and ammo is a no-no. Shoot the dat gone thing.

Understanding the feed process in its entirety also helps you diagnose and remedy this problem. A 1911 .45 auto feeds very close to the same way and suffers the same problems/solutions albeit on a larger scale.

By the way, a Fluff & Buff including the breech face and a buff of the bottom of the extractor bevel removed enough of the energy absorbing friction to allow my P3 to function 100% with anything I load it with.

I have posted a couple of other little tricks not mentioned in mainstream F&B articles here;

http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=104;action=display;num=1180018193

 

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The single most blamable reason for the AT not feeding the first round is the lack of slide mass - it's not a good comparison to equate this pistol with ANY other auto, let alone a 1911. Truthfully, polishing the breech face and chamfering the firing pin hole are, in my opinion, completely unnecessary chores.
Your pistol will break in by itself - just slingshot it until it does.
Flyer
 

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OK, Here I go again,
Why in the  H  E double hockey sticks should any one who invests in a new in the box pistol have to go through all the hoops necessary to make pistol’s like the P3AT and PF9 function. Kel-Tec is perfectly capable of making a handgun that function’s the first time out of the box, I know they can because I own two of them in the form of the P11 and P32. I don’t give a crap if it would cost another ten dollars it would be worth it.  We are Kel-Tec's emissaries to the world, how can I or anyone suggest that a friend or loved one buy a pistol that may very well not work when it is needed. I can feel the heat and flames all ready and don't give a darn. I can not support something that does not work when it is supposed to, especially when my or your family’s lives depend on it. If Kel-Tec continues to make handguns that do not work, I will continue to raise my voice at this forum and beyond. I put this question to all that read this posting, I want mtdt or anyone else who is listening to consider this, If this were the family car would you let your wife, daughter or son drive it?
G.R.
Let the flaming begin!
.
 

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SuperFlyer said:
The single most blamable reason for the AT not feeding the first round is the lack of slide mass - it's not a good comparison to equate this pistol with ANY other auto, let alone a 1911. Truthfully, polishing the breech face and chamfering the firing pin hole are, in my opinion, completely unnecessary chores.
Your pistol will break in by itself - just slingshot it until it does.
Flyer
I would partially agree with you on the firing pin hole ,in some instances. My particular P-3At had obvious burrs inside the hole that may or may not impede the firing pin. I would expect other examples to show the same crude attention to detail. For a 2 minute job why take chances?

I would wholly disagree with you on polishing the breech face, with the "Lack of Mass" on the slide why would not want the smoothest surface possible for a brass to steel contact? Where momentum robbing friction could slow or stop the desired process of the pistol feeding and going into battery?

It is much easier on this fragile pistol to manually "break-in" the action with compound, dremel's and sandpaper than wearing out your hand and arm "Jacking the slide" wide-eyed with drool coming out the side of your lips... :-X

I have been working on auto pistols of practically every make and manufacture, foreign and domestic for over 35 years as a hobby. I merely bought a Kel-Tec because I am now retired, had 300 dollars to piss away and have lots of time to kill, my goal? Making it run like a Glock :eek: The holy grail of cheap auto pistol reliability, form often follows function.

The Kel-Tech engineering and design are solid, the manufacture, materials and workmanship are where the train jumps the tracks. I spent more than a few hours reading every post on the P-3AT from the experienced and novice, you as a "God" should have figured this out by now? Lets not put a dress on a pig and call her darling.

Jerry
 

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Tractorshaft said:
I spent more than a few hours reading every post on the P-3AT from the experienced and novice, you as a "God" should have figured this out by now? Lets not put a dress on a pig and call her darling.

Jerry
I'm not really interested in your pistolsmithing resume, and you haven't worked on KT pistols a tenth as much as I have, or even a hundredth.
You read right: I don't consider it necessary to polish the breechface or chamfer the firing pin hole unless it's seriously burred and impeding the firing pin (which I've never seen happen with a P-3AT).
I understand that the mechanics of the P-3AT aren't easily understood by those with limited knowledge of how a recoil operated, locked breech pistol operates. Suffice it to say that, in some circumstances, adding a bit of friction to SLOW the slide down a bit is desirable, especially when the recoil spring is doing the job of chambering new rounds instead of the a heavy, high momentum slide. Slingshotting the slide will work every time if done right, and soon won't be necessary at all.
In practice it's similiar to hard-fitting a hand-built 1911. Sure, a sloppily fitted, rattling pistol will work fine out of the box whereas a hard-fitted one will require both hands and possibly a rubber mallet to break the slide free of battery - but the hard-fitted pistol is still going to be tight long after the loose, "standard" version is retired as being dangerous.
Flyer
 

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Not to get in the middle of anything but P3AT is a carry alot shoot a little pistol. Mine has never so much as had a stutter in 300 rds, 200 right after buying it 1.5 years ago. I smoothed the trigger and trigger guard because they hurt my fingers. Gave the feed ramp a quick going over and a few other things just because I like to fool with things. It has been very happy in a DeSantis pocket holster ever since with monthly or so cleanings (I never carrying anything else in my right front pocket but it still gets dirty ;D).

Maybe I have been lucky but it has shot everything put into it including the Corbons I carry it loaded with. It is an HR*** serial number gun.

I did spent 27 years in injection molded plastic Quality Control and can tell you that as K-T molds age it may not be a bad idea to check for parting line flash anywhere there is a critical parting line (as in the mag well, which is a slide parting line and therefore even more likely to flash).

Round two

Vince
 

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SuperFlyer said:
I'm not really interested in your pistolsmithing resume, and you haven't worked on KT pistols a tenth as much as I have, or even a hundredth.
YOU REALLY ARE A GOD :-/

You read right: I don't consider it necessary to polish the breechface or chamfer the firing pin hole unless it's seriously burred and impeding the firing pin (which I've never seen happen with a P-3AT).

Some people are happy with mediocrity, others care a little more for the things they own and desire the very best, functionally and ascetically

I understand that the mechanics of the P-3AT aren't easily understood by those with limited knowledge of how a recoil operated, locked breech pistol operates.

I said the P-3AT "feeds" like the 1911; and scores of other auto pistols. I did not say the gun functions like one, although, it does function like several other John Browning designs and FN implementations, using the "Short-Recoil locked breech" action. The Kel-Tec and Browning Hi-Power are textbook examples of this.

Guaranteed the Kel-Tec would not exist had the Browning/FN patent on the action not expired.

I own six (6) Hi-Powers , how many do you own? Any experience working on or troubleshooting them? Thought so.. ???






Suffice it to say that, in some circumstances, adding a bit of friction to SLOW the slide down a bit is desirable, especially when the recoil spring is doing the job of chambering new rounds instead of the a heavy, high momentum slide. Slingshotting the slide will work every time if done right, and soon won't be necessary at all.

::) Wow! In fact, I think I know how to slingshot a slide as I am sure others here do, I am not the only person who has had the P3AT fail to go into battery when properly sling shotted with a full magazine inserted. Does anyone have any FRICTION ADDING TIPS for post?

In practice it's similiar to hard-fitting a hand-built 1911. Sure, a sloppily fitted, rattling pistol will work fine out of the box whereas a hard-fitted one will require both hands and possibly a rubber mallet to break the slide free of battery - but the hard-fitted pistol is still going to be tight long after the loose, "standard" version is retired as being dangerous.
Flyer

OK, what does this have to do with a poorly finished and fitted Kel-Tec P-3AT from the factory? Perhaps you were trying to impress me with your 1911 knowledge? I have forgotten more than you probably know about this gun.


 

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Vincent said:
Not to get in the middle of anything but P3AT is a carry alot shoot a little pistol. Mine has never so much as had a stutter in 300 rds, 200 right after buying it 1.5 years ago. I smoothed the trigger and trigger guard because they hurt my fingers. Gave the feed ramp a quick going over and a few other things just because I like to fool with things. It has been very happy in a DeSantis pocket holster ever since with monthly or so cleanings (I never carrying anything else in my right front pocket but it still gets dirty ;D).

Has anyone else ever put a little piece of black electrical tape over their muzzle and the back of the slide cut-out to keep FOD (Foreign Object & Debris) out of their "Pocket" gun"? I did this on a little Mak I used to pocket carry, worked great and was tested and tested without any effect on the reliability of the pistol. An old soldier trick= Tape the muzzle, magazine well and ejection port up when going to the field, give ALL of your blanks to the newbs, you can yell bang, bang if you want to simulate. When you get home after 45 days in the Mojave Desert it takes about 15 minutes vs. 2-3 hours at the armory cleaning your rifle before the anal retentive armorer will accept it and you can go drink beer

Maybe I have been lucky but it has shot everything put into it including the Corbons I carry it loaded with. It is an HR*** serial number gun.

I did spent 27 years in injection molded plastic Quality Control and can tell you that as K-T molds age it may not be a bad idea to check for parting line flash anywhere there is a critical parting line (as in the mag well, which is a slide parting line and therefore even more likely to flash).

Like This?




Round two

Vince
 

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I know what I'm talking about, Tractorshaft, you're out of your league, dude. The P-3AT now comes from the factor with several improvements I thought up.
I own a couple of Hi-Powers, but have worked on literally hundreds, as well as 1911s (I WAS a 1911 'smith for years).
Flyer
 

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SuperFlyer said:
I know what I'm talking about, Tractorshaft, you're out of your league, dude. The P-3AT now comes from the factor with several improvements I thought up.
I own a couple of Hi-Powers, but have worked on literally hundreds, as well as 1911s (I WAS a 1911 'smith for years).
Flyer

I like you already! ;), Fantastic! I think we are all passionate about our guns, its a beautiful thing living in America! Happy Memorial Day everyone.


Fred Thompson for Prez in 08
 
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