Community for Kel-Tec Shooters banner
1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just picked up a new 2nd Gen J6xxx Hard Chromed P3AT and after 150rds, I'm still experiencing failures to feed after firing the 4th round (when the 5th is being fed into the chamber).

About 60% of the time, simply pushing the slide forward would chamber the round. However, the rest of the time usually required applying some rearward pressure on the slide while at the same time attempting to rip out the magazine due to two live rounds trying to double feed into the chamber.

I tried using 4 different mags and experienced 5th round FTF's with each mag and 3 different ammo brands (all I had with me). 95gr American Eagle (Federal), 95gr Independence, 95gr Speer Gold Dots.

Also, I cleaned the P3AT and lightly oiled it before I went to the range. I almost hit the feed ramp with some 1500grit paper, but it felt really smooth (smoother than my 1st gen), so I left it alone.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
32,240 Posts
Re: Failure to Feed 5th Round Into Chamber P3AT Ch

This is strange.  You've covered all the bases,  different mags,  different ammo.  Since it's always the 5th round I'd think it was the mag if it didn't do it with 4 different mags.  We'll have to think about this one for a while.  It should be about broken in but I might just load (duh, I meant shoot) 4 rounds from each mag before reloading it, and try to get some more rounds through it.  Are you using grease on the rails?  


Maybe someone else has a suggestion.  
RC!   ???
 
G

·
Re: Failure to Feed 5th Round Into Chamber P3AT Ch

he has done everything that I would have done an now subject to frustration, I would let kt take care of it. Hell the gun can't count, he has tried 4 magazines, same thing, as a last resort before letting kt have it back, I would do a complete F & B on the slide, check for any burrs on the inside of the frame etc, polish the interface to a mirror finish, feed ramp, magazine lips etc, check the recoil springs for any defects etc, make sure there are indeed two recoil springs instead of one, grease rails and interface bar and test again. If it does it, let kt have it back to make it right. Can't fault the shooter here either.
 
G

·
Re: Failure to Feed 5th Round Into Chamber P3AT Ch

z71bill said:
Which part of the gun is the interface bar?
that long bar type metal on the bottom of the slide that actually cocks the hammer and feeds the next round out of the magazine into the chamber. Mirror smooth and lubed just decrease any friction in that area.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,377 Posts
Re: Failure to Feed 5th Round Into Chamber P3AT Ch

TXAGGIECHL said:
while at the same time attempting to rip out the magazine due to two live rounds trying to double feed into the chamber.
Now that there is a puzzlement?

I can't figure out any way for the slide to get two live rounds out of the mag at the same time.

First, the slide has to push the first round foreword out of the mag, and into the chamber. At that point, it has slid up under the extractor hook and is held in place until it is either fired, or manually ejected.

Then, the second round can't possibly raise up in front of the slide to get pushed out until the slide cycles fully to the rear again.
I could easily understand an empty case and a live round tyeing up the gun, but two live rounds? ???

Any chance you could post a picture of this very odd occurrence?


rcmodel
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
32,240 Posts
Re: Failure to Feed 5th Round Into Chamber P3AT Ch

TXAGGIECHL said:
 However, the rest of the time usually required applying some rearward pressure on the slide while at the same time attempting to rip out the magazine due to two live rounds trying to double feed into the chamber.
Had to be that the "rearward pressure" on the slide racked up another round. I'm thinking miscommunication or he didn't realize what happened. I still can't figure what's causing the 5th round feed problem though. :-/
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
7,638 Posts
Re: Failure to Feed 5th Round Into Chamber P3AT Ch

  The only thing different about the 5th round is the mag spring up pressure is less. It's happening with all mags, so that rules out mags.

  Something is happening that does NOT happen with the higher spring-up pressure of the first four rounds.

  Is it the slide dragging somehow?

  Is it some resistance to the round popping up into the extractor?

  I don't know, I'm not there. You should be checking for something like this though.

  Maybe remove the recoil springs and put the gun back together. Now you can slowly feed some snap caps to see what differences appear after the 4th round.

Packer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Re: Failure to Feed 5th Round Into Chamber P3AT Ch

Thanks for all the replies and help. I wish I'd paid more attention to the 5 or 6 times when the gun got completely locked up. I'm positive it was NOT an ejection problem as the offenders were live rounds and not brass casings. The rounds seemed to be ejecting almost straight up...maybe a hair to the right (ejection port side).

Next time I'm at the range, I'll take my camera and get some good pictures of the stoppages, as a picture is probably worth 10,000 words when trying to solve these issues.

I too thought it might have been a mag issue after the first couple of times it happened. That's when I sorted my mags and kept a tally. Each mag exhibited the same 5th round failure most of the time. Every once and a while, I'd shoot a clean six rounds (maybe 40% of the time).

It seemed like my oldest mag was the most reliable however!

Mags:
1x Came my 1st Gen P3AT purchased about 2yrs ago. Has about 300rds through that mag.
1x Came with 2nd Gen P3AT purchased two weeks ago. New magazine.
2x Ordered online from a Kel-Tec retailer. No idea how old/new they were, but they were NIB in KT packaging.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
32,240 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Re: Failure to Feed 5th Round Into Chamber P3AT Ch

Thanks Tx. I did notice a couple of rougher spots around the inside slide rails (on the slide) when I was cleaning after the range trip.

However, there is only a fraction of black worn off on the frame and it doesn't appear to line-up where the rough parts on the slide were.

Has anyone done a F&B on these hard chrome slides?

I've done one on my 1st Gen parkerized P3AT and that worked just fine. Is there anything special I need to do with regards to smoothing out HC'd parts?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
32,240 Posts
Re: Failure to Feed 5th Round Into Chamber P3AT Ch

On the chrome guns, IF it needs it, you would only be poplishing the underside of the slide (rails) where it wouldn't show.  If there is any "gouging" on the frame rails where the anodization has been worn off, you can smooth that out too.  I have done F & B on 2 hard chrome guns.  Just don't sand anything that shows.  Polish that hammer interface for sure.  There is a lot of friction there.  Don't forget the grease where shown in the Lube link.  I'm thinking (hoping) this is break-in stuff and just shooting more may do the trick.  The F & B will only speed up the process.


 
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Re: Failure to Feed 5th Round Into Chamber P3AT Ch

I too am leaning more towards it being a break-in issue. There is barely any wear on the interior slide channels. I'm assuming it takes the HC a lot longer to break-in. I'll run some 600-800grit inside both channels and see what that does.

Besides the 5th round jam issue, I've actually been quit pleased with this 2nd Gen P3AT. Even to this day, my 1st Gen is only reliable for about 3 magazines (which is fine for me, since I only carry 13rds total). Then it gets too dirty and jams every couple of rounds, at random intervals.

A good cleaning solves the problems. It appears the tolerances are much looser on the 2G's as I put 150 rounds straight through my new 2G and minus the 5th round issue, no other jams occurred. Although my right hand/thumb was sore as hell afterwards!
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
32,240 Posts
Re: Failure to Feed 5th Round Into Chamber P3AT Ch

Ouch! That's too many rounds in one session from a P3AT for me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Re: Failure to Feed 5th Round Into Chamber P3AT Ch

Yeah, I pushed my limit by about 75rds that day!

But hey, it ruled out any limp wristing problems/issues with the 2G P3AT in general as I know my grip was really loose on the last ~50 rounds; yet the pistol still functioned well (except for the above stated issue).

My hand/thumb hasn't hurt like this since I pounded 50rds of .38SPL and 25rds of .357Magnum out of a 12oz S&W 340PD Scandium revolver in one range session. Yeah, I guess I'm sick like that!

The icing on the cake however, will probably be written sometime this spring, as I've had my eye on a Ruger Alaskan in .454 Casull for an upcoming trip.

The Alaskan is a 41oz, 2.5" barrel, 6-shot revolver that shoots both .454 Casull and .45 Colt.
I've heard it has one hell of a snappy recoil with full-house .454 loads!

It's not that I enjoy punishment per se, but I've been planning a backpacking trip for late spring/early summer, into remote NW Wyoming/Idaho and have read that Brownies have started becoming a little bit of a problem in that area.

I figure this gun will be shot little and carried a lot, and I'd much rather have a .454 Casull vs a S&W 329PD .44Mag if I'm on the dinner menu!

~Ride the Lightning! ;D

http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=5301

http://www.shootingtimes.com/handgun_reviews/rgrRH/

http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-SRHAlaskan454.htm

 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top