Failure to extract

In my experience failures to extract are probably the most serious and baffling problems with the P-3AT. Mine will not extract Winchester Black Talon at all. Other brands work fine.

A few years ago I read reports here, with pics, of P-3ATs that had a groove running down the left corner of the breech that allowed the cartridge case to move too far to the left and  away from the extractor claw. The only fix was when Kel-Tec replaced the improperly machined slides with new ones, entire new uppers, actually.

There are other threads about doing the "Barrel Hood Mod", an extractor mod http://1bad69.com/keltec/extractor.htm and placing a pad on the frame beneath the barrel cam to limit downward travel of the barrel during the extraction process.

If you visit the Kel-Tec Range website, www.ktrange.com/phpbb2/index.php there is a lot of info in the "Maximizing Miniaturization" section of that board. Unfortunately it is for MEMBERS ONLY, so you will have to join if you want to see it.

My experience was this:

Magtech cheapo fmj ammo: failed to extract 3 times out of 50 rounds, failed to feed a few times too.
PMC starfire: 20 rounds worked great
Corbon 90 grain jhp: worked perfectly, and you could really feel the rounds were working the action "strongly" - it just felt "right"

My theories about this gun are that it needs full power ammo to work correctly. To me the whole failure to extract thing stinks of ammo not hot enough to run the action to an optimal level, though I have heard of these guns doing it with even corbon ammo. I am dying to try the buffalo bore stuff but it is sold out online.

Normally I would instantly sell any gun that jammed this much, but these little keltecs have so much potential I am going to stick it out.


These guns obviously have issues my SIG Sauer pistols will never have, but I can't stick my P220 in a pocket and forget about it, especially the pocket of a pair of gym shorts, so I am just going to have to figure out what makes these little P3AT pistols work the best they possibly can.

For now it is loaded with corbons, and I think every pistol owner needs to practice the drills that involve clearing a jammed weapon, especially keltec owners.

Well after a range session today I will have to say my particular p3at has an "across the board" issue with failures to extract no matter the ammo. I tried corbon, federal, winchester, and they all failed to extract at least once a magazine. It had the fluff and buff including a mirror polish of breech face, chamber, and feed ramp with 2000 grit paper, and the extractor was lightly polished as well, and looked fine. I do NOT in any way "limp wrist" either, and with any pocket pistol am very sure to have a firm rock solid grip. This gun is not reliable enough to carry so it will be moved to "plinking" status as my reliable beretta tomcat moves back to carry position. Tomcats are not perfect as the older ones have been known to crack a frame after lots of rounds, and they are a bit thicker, but they are reliable. The funny thing is that my tomcat doesn't even have an extractor yet has no problem kicking out spent cases. The keltec can't seem to extract even with an extractor.

I am not going to bother with shipping it across the country, if it doesn't work out of the box forget it. And I just want to make one comment about the "wonderful" service of keltec. By this I mean the willingness to fix broken pistols. This is the same mentality that GM and Ford had for years that drove them to the grave. "Build a defective product, but be cheerful when it comes time to fix it under warranty and do it with a smile". This is exactly why Honda and Toyota are now where they are. ANY customer would MUCH prefer to simply have something that does not break down, than to have it break and be treated "nicely" while their defective product is fixed. I feel keltec needs to slow down, emphasize quality, and maybe bump that price up to pay for it. They already "pay for it" with a huge number of warranty claims anyway, as you can tell with a little research.

Sorry, but after years owning HK's and SIG's, I don't buy this "don't worry, we'll fix it when it jams all the time" garbage, because the next time it jams might be the time you need it to save your life. HK's and SIG's don't jam, so reliable pistols can be made every time, every serial number. Keltec just can't seem to do that judging by all the reports of FTE issues. I would say at least you can plink with it, but it is a painful gun to shoot since it beats up your finger and you can't grip it well.

I hear you loud and clear.  I was there a few years ago, when my P-3AT kept failing to feed.  Sent it back and they made it right.  It's been 100% for years now but I don't shoot more than a few magazines a year.  Back when I was experiencing failures I just stopped carrying it and went with a J frame revolver - pull trigger, goes bang.  It's only 5 shot but 38 sp+P is a good round. The more I shoot the more I like revolvers for reliability.

In the next 2 weeks I'll be getting a Rohrbaugh 9mm pocket pistol and we'll see if there is such a thing as a reliable pocket pistol.  I think these tiny little auto loaders are troublesome no matter which make or model.  I have a Wilson Combat SDS 45 and so far I've fired 1200 rounds with zero failures of any kind.  It's a larger auto loader, and it functions 100% reliably.  But it cost $3,200 and for that I expect perfection.  The Kel-Tec is a $250 pocket pistol that in many cases can be made to be reliable.  I have a difficult time trusting my life to a tiny pocket pistol - but when I need to carry something tiny, I go with the P-3AT.  If the Rohrbaugh 9mm is 100% reliable it may become my new pocket pistol but I have my doubts ANY tiny pocket pistol can be reliable.

I figure the P-3AT is better than nothing - when I can only carry a tiny pocket pistol. But as time goes on I find myself less and less willing to make that compromise.

Good luck and let us know how it's going.

My problem is solved for now. See the picture and notice the lack of curve in the top spring? The top spring is the old extractor spring and the bottom spring is the new one.

I'm hoping that this is a one time occurrence and shouldn't happen again, at least not for a while. I test fired it with my reloads and ran 4 mags through without a hick-up. BTW my reloads are pretty much full power loads shooting 3.2 grains of bullseye with a 95 grain rainers full copper plated bullet. Read no exposed lead.

It still bothers me that this happened just out of the blue and I'm still considering a wheel gun. I did not remove the extractor excessively IMO so I don't think I did this.