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Would the emphasis on immediate expansion and frangibility not be a bad idea for heavily-clothed targets? Heck I live in MN so six months out of the year if a round only penetrates 7" into gelatin I doubt it would get past the first parka let alone the jacket, the fleece pullover, the flannel shirt and the t-shirt beneath it ;D

Joking aside, I would be concerened about such a frangible projectile not penetrating enough to do any seriuous damage.
 

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Something to think about...
All of these exotic rounds promise instantaneous, 100% energy transfer exactly when needed.
No doubt, there are SOME instances where they'd be perfectly correct. Their round might be ideal for a certain situation.
However, it's been shown through the years (beginning with the Glaser Safety Slug), that it's generally wise to carry the most effective standard ammunition in your personal weapon.
Face it, you NEVER know what your ammo will be called upon to do - penetrate heavy clothing, light clothing, a car door, etc., and that versatility goes right out the window with most ammunition of this type.
One concern is that of shooting through a wall and hitting an innocent on the other side, or overpenetration on the street and nailing a bystander down the street.
The fact is, if your shooting is deemed justified, if your round exits and does damage or even death to another, innocent individual, it is NOT considered a crime.
It's unfortunate, yes... but as long as the shooting is clean, you won't be criminally responsible.
This is something to keep in mind.
Remember, though, that a civil suit could still be filed - but, at least you'd be ALIVE to fight the charge in court!!!
Flyer
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
"The compressed Tungsten-NyTriliumTM Composite fragments upon impact, leaving a wound channel of catastrophic proportions. The expansive fragmentation characteristics of the ExtremeShock rounds transfer the bullets energy in a far faster time span than conventional hollowpoints. The resulting stopping power is utterly devastating."

If you go to the sight and see the results in ballistic clay the wound channel is unbelievable. It looks like it would go through a winter coat no prob.


http://www.extremeshockusa.com/cgis...ew/product_info.html&setup=1&cart_id=
 
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Here’s my favorite from the testimonials page.

"I happened to have a KELTEC .32 that I use as a backup with me. I must say I was somewhat concerned that this small caliber would be effective, as I have shot wild boar before with much larger calibers and rifles and found them to be very tough animals.

The wild boar that we found turned out to be 450bls on the hoof... a very large animal. The first shot was app. 20 yards and the boar was quatered towards me. The round struck the boar in the breast (chest) and was staggered. The board turned an ran but it was obvious that it was seriously affected by the bullter as it was stumbling and the rear end would drag. After several yards we caught up with the boar and the second shot was from 10-11 yards and was braodside (left) shot behind the shoulder. The boar immediately collapsed and was totally incapacitated."

20 yds with a 2.75" barreled mousegun known to have some of the worse sights out there? Chest shot to boot. ::)  
I'm not saying it's an impossible shot but...

I don't by it.
 
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Take what you read on their (or any) web site about "magic bullets" with a grain of salt. The general consensus <do a google search> is that their product is "snake oil", so to speak. They can invent cute (and/or macho sounding) words like "nytrillium", "fang face" and something vague about an air marshall "air freedom" round and talk about the devestating effects of their bullets, but they haven't actually proven a darn thing in the real world.

They have a really really nice display at the SHOT Show, but I truly wonder about a company that won't even send out information to retail gun stores - who ask for information on their product (read: me). They say they are looking for dealers, I try to get info, and they are silent... 2 years in a row!

There's all kinds of folks out there that make absurd and outlandish claims about their products and the effectiveness of their products... anyone remember the infamous "Black Rhino - Razor" magic bullet from the 90's <do a google search here too>? Same type of hype, except they got national attention cause they said they could defeat body armor with polymer rounds, and suddenly out of business. I actually have a retail pack of the Rhino stuff - I thought it would be a collector's item some day, but I don't think it'll get me through retirement.

I'll bet that this Extreme Shok stuff blows away. BTW, I'd buy a 6 pack of it and put it away, they might be worth something to an obsolete an strange cartridge collector a few years down the road. :)

My advice, FWIW: stick with proven commercial ammo, stay away from "magic bullets".
 
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UTRay said:
Here’s my favorite from the testimonials page.

.... The boar immediately collapsed and was totally incapacitated."

20 yds with a 2.75" barreled mousegun known to have some of the worse sights out there? Chest shot to boot. ::)  
I'm not saying it's an impossible shot but...

I don't by it.
Me either. <BG>

Sounds good though. Just the kind of stuff urban legends are made of.

Maybe we should contact Mythbusters? I'd love to see them test this one out.
 
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Feed? You don't even have to load them in your gun. Just turn them loose outside the house and they seek out bad guys and terrorists and kill them all by themselves. Sort of the ultimate crime fighter ammo. :D
 

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Just like how the Magsafe MAX +p+ .380 ammo claims to be more devastating that the hottest .45 ACP hollowpoints... ::) Read the inside of the package...but, adhere to that little yellow round sticker on the front about the P3AT with MAX ammo.
-ScottD
 

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bw77 said:
"The compressed Tungsten-NyTriliumTM Composite fragments upon impact..."
I'm gonna call BS on this one. The ATF (http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/legal/armor.htm) prohibits armor peircing ammo which it defines as "a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or ..."

If it's really a tungsten alloy then it's illegal and in violation of federal law. Just marketing BS I'm sure.
 

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Have some,  shot two rounds and saved one slug from a wet pack test.  Not impressed with the penetration,  or the expansion, or the weight retention.  Guess it would get the job done if placed properly,  but so would anything...
Too expensive and crappy for all the hype IMHO.
Have a look at the slug with the jacket totally seperated from the lead.  That's the Extreme Shock.

Top round is a .38
the two perfectly opened are Corbon .380
then the Extreme .380
the last three are Santa Barbara,  with the most penetration of the .380's
Don't ask for details, because the whole wetpack test was pretty much botched and I need to do it again without as much "help" to goof it up. ;) ;D ;)
 

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Hey Duggunitt!!!

You have any problem with the S-B JSPs feeding through your P3AT?? I have run well over 100 rounds of the stuff through mine and get at least one FTF in every mag. My golden sabre carry ammo runs right through it.

Dave
 

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You have any problem with the S-B JSPs feeding through your P3AT??
Actually Dave, the only malfunction I've had with my P3AT was while shooting the Santa Barbara round.
Besides the FTE, I had the pin walk out, and my new P-sight flew off. I don't shoot the Santa B through the P3AT anymore. I bought a Bersa Thunder for that, and it handles it perfectly with way better accuracy and less recoil. The P3AT handles everything else perfectly and fits in the pocket just fine. It remains my daily carry gun.
Regards, Doug
 

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Doug,

That S-B stuff is really HOT! Sounds the same as a 9x19 and is not at all pleasant to shoot in that little critter. I bought a 2000 round 1983 vintage case B4 I realized what it was. Got lots left. My understanding is that it is sub-machinegun ammo. Might be able to run it through a Makarov 9x18. It is a mite stout for the little KT.

Dave
 
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