Community for Kel-Tec Shooters banner
1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just took my brand new Sub2000 Gen2 9mm Glock to the range and have a few questions for you experts. I put about 150 rounds of Winchester white box through the gun without a single FTF, FTE, or misfeed, yet every single spent casing came out with a ton of powder residue on it. Every casing ejected (successfully) with black powder residue at least half way around the casing from rim to edge.

Just for fun I manually inserted a live round in the barrel and wiggled it around but there didn't seem to be much slop, if any. I did the same with the barrel on my 25 year old Glock 17 and it was identical.

I have never had this happen on any of my handguns. Is this something unique to this rifle?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,000 Posts
Cheap, crappy ammo that is known to be dirty...we try to stay away from it. You got lucky that you didn't have any feeding problems.

Plus it's a blow-back actioned rifle, they tend to be dirty. Combine the 2 and you get a mess.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I can go with the blow-back action explanation, especially since it's my first and only, but I've put thousands of rounds of this stuff through my Glock 17, Colt Competition 9mm, and Ruger LCR9, and no casings came out this dirty. Thanks for the explanation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,084 Posts
Sounds like it could also be that particular load or even the brass.

During firing the brass expands and seals the mouth of the case to the chamber for a nanosecond. But for that to happen there must be enough pressure. Maybe the powder choice allows some seepage before the case seals. Understand that's all just a guess, but the evidence is there on the case. I don't remember my brass being as dirty as you describe.

Then there is also what haugrdr wrote.

If you have any of that box left try shooting it in another gun and see what the brass looks like. You may have shot thousands of rounds of it through other guns, but maybe Win' changed the load? Could it be of a different lot from the other stuff you shot?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
17,775 Posts
I shot WWB almost exclusively for the first 2 years when I bought my first Sub2k a little over 10 years ago. Same results. It's probably more a result of the blowback action than anything else. It also got the tops of my magazines pretty sooty. But it wiped off quite easily.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
238 Posts
I shot WWB almost exclusively for the first 2 years when I bought my first Sub2k a little over 10 years ago. Same results. It's probably more a result of the blowback action than anything else. It also got the tops of my magazines pretty sooty. But it wiped off quite easily.

Same for me.

For me the dirtiest ammo is Blazer. I don't use it anymore because things get so black...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
478 Posts
I can go with the blow-back action explanation, especially since it's my first and only, but I've put thousands of rounds of this stuff through my Glock 17, Colt Competition 9mm, and Ruger LCR9, and no casings came out this dirty. Thanks for the explanation.
1. They are all recoil operated, not blow-back.

2. They all have barrels about 1/3 the length of the carbine.

Those two factors will inevitably result in more residue in the carbine, compared to pistols.

The carbine may or may not have a slightly larger dimensioned chamber, which might or might not contribute to sooty cases.

Try different ammunition, and different bullet weights.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
238 Posts
1. They are all recoil operated, not blow-back.

2. They all have barrels about 1/3 the length of the carbine.

Those two factors will inevitably result in more residue in the carbine, compared to pistols.

The carbine may or may not have a slightly larger dimensioned chamber, which might or might not contribute to sooty cases.

Try different ammunition, and different bullet weights.
Interesting.

I always presumed the sub 2000 was blowback because the barrel didn't move. My operating definitions were like this:

"blowback action" : An action characterized by a system where the pressure created by the combustion of the cartridge forces the slide open when the firearm is fired and after firing, the weight of the hammer, slide, recoil spring, and other parts combine to return the slide to the closed position. No mechanical locking system is used; found in automatic and semi-automatic firearms.

"recoil operated action" : A type of action found in some automatic and semiautomatic firearms in which the force of the barrel moving rearward due to recoil cycles the bore cycles the firearm. Generally, the barrel, due to the recoil spring, moves back into the forward position faster than the also forced backwards breechblock. Thus, when the breechblock moves forwards, it strips a new cartridge from the magazine and chambers it in the now resting barrel.

This guys describes it in more detail:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mz5E9k6epTE[/ame]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
478 Posts
Interesting.

I always presumed the sub 2000 was blowback because the barrel didn't move.
Nope...it's blowback because the breech is never locked to barrel, and breech inertia + recoil spring resistance is used to delay breech opening until bullet has exited muzzle and gas pressure in bore has dropped to safe level. 'Safe', doesn't mean 'zero', so you will often find some residue on sides of extracted cases, and area around mouth of chamber.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
238 Posts
Nope...it's blowback because the breech is never locked to barrel, and breech inertia + recoil spring resistance is used to delay breech opening until bullet has exited muzzle and gas pressure in bore has dropped to safe level. 'Safe', doesn't mean 'zero', so you will often find some residue on sides of extracted cases, and area around mouth of chamber.

I thought you said they were recoil??????
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top