Ejected brass is deformed?

Discussion in 'P-3AT' started by sph33r, Apr 22, 2008.

  1. sph33r

    sph33r New Member

    4
    Sep 12, 2007
    Hi all, newbie p3at owner here. I took my new acquisition to the range today and noticed a bit of peculiar deformation happening to the ejected casings. The mouth of each was flattened a little bit on one side. Almost every piece of brass I picked up off the ground had this problem.

    Obviously it's happening after being fired so it's probably not a big deal, I'm just wondering if this is normal?

    Thanks :)
     
  2. adamsesq

    adamsesq New Member

    Dec 25, 2006
    Yup. Absolutely normal. Some more than others.

    -Scott
     

  3. The ejected brass, in its journey the to the next county over, hits the frame of the 3AT. If you look at your frame in the area below the extractor, you will probably see a few dings and brass colored marks.

    I would guess that at least 100% of the 2nd gen 3AT's do it. I know 100% of mine do.


    The top frame in this photo is the Ruger LCP.
    Note the machined out Ruger frame where the brass usually nicks the P3AT Frame.

    [​IMG]

    A close up of the cut out area on the Ruger.

    [​IMG]


    I am guessing Ruger started cutting that part out of the frame because of all the crying over the marks.

    A few 3AT shooters will gently sand that corner over to reduce the hits, but if left alone it will eventually fix itself.
     
  4. rcmodel

    rcmodel New Member

    Feb 6, 2005
    Eastern Kansas
    If you look at your slide just behind and slightly right of the ejection port, you will find a bunch of little brass "tracks" after a shooting session.

    As the case is ejected, it does a 180 back-flip out of the gun, and the case mouth hits the top of the slide before continuing into orbit.

    Stock GI 1911's do the same thing.
    That is why you see a scallop cut just behind the ejection port on most custom guns.
    It gives the brass room to do the 180 back-flip without hitting the slide and flattening the case mouth.

    rcmodel
     
  5. gvaldeg1

    gvaldeg1 New Member

    152
    Feb 8, 2008
    I am just constantly amazed and pleased at how helpful you experienced KT owners are on this forum! Over the years, I've owned a myriad of different rifles and handguns (I've sold off virtually all and just kept a few defense weapons) and belong to a number of different gun forums but this is WITHOUT A DOUBT the BEST gun owner's forum on the net. I've never seen a more convivial and helpful group!! :)
     
  6. Some of us just like to show off! ;)
     
  7. sph33r

    sph33r New Member

    4
    Sep 12, 2007
    Great info guys.. thank you very much!
     
  8. Wilson

    Wilson New Member

    Sep 7, 2004
    I have eliminated ugly-deformed-mouth-disease from my P-3ATs with a minor barrel-hood modification on both first & second generation P-3ATs. This permits the brass to be extracted without striking the barrel hood permitting a smoother extraction. If you were not having failures to extract or are not into reloading, I wouldn’t recommend such a modification by a Newbie.

    Unless patience and a good set of pick files are used a $100 barrel can easily be destroyed. The outside barrels have been modified but not as much as the picture below would indicate. The barrels were on soft velvet and are somewhat depressed into it.

    [​IMG]

    Wilson – who’s latest P-3AT will undergo pick-file-surgery soon :'(
     
  9. Moleman

    Moleman New Member

    44
    Mar 12, 2008
    Wilson-
    I know a picture's worth a thousand words, but give me just a few words if you would. It appears you filed the area on the top of the barrel, opposite the feed ramp? Is the one in the middle unmodified?

    Did you just use a file, or dremel it afterwards? Any particulars on the file (a number, or whatever?)

    I'm chasing an FTE problem, and this could be worth a try after I do the more obvious fixes mentioned in other threads.

    TIA.

    Moleman
     
  10. Wilson

    Wilson New Member

    Sep 7, 2004
    Correct, the center barrel above is unmodified. I don’t use my Dremel when removing metal as I have a tendency to take off too much to quickly (and I gouge). I don’t want to remove any more metal than is absolutely necessary and in no case should so much metal be removed as to prevent proper pistol lock-up. I remove a small amount of metal, smooth with 600/800gr sandpaper then test fire before removing any more metal. I purchased my set of pick-files from Home Depot and use the semi-circle one from the set for this modification. Again, let me say that the camera and reflection of the rounded edge along with a deep velvet surface give the appearance of more metal removed that is actually the case.

    A small amount of metal removed (just slightly rounding the edge) might not be noticed by Kel-Tec but a noticeable amount would surely void the barrel warranty. Unless you are a less-is-best type person, don't try it.

    Wilson – who’s glad to say all of his minor-barrel-hood-mods have been successful . . . so far :D
     
  11. adamsesq

    adamsesq New Member

    Dec 25, 2006
    Just for some comparison, here is what I did on one of my barrels.  A slightly different approach than Wilson's "center" filing.  Like Wilson I had filed and sanded, checking frequently to not go any further than I needed to.

    [​IMG]

    And just for clarification, pursuant to Federal Law (Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act) KT can NOT refuse to honor a warranty just because a product is modified.  In order to do so they must prove the failure was caused by the warranty.  If your barrel fails around the "modification" it is clearly attributable to that modification, but just because they can see that it was modified does not mean the warranty is void.  

    -Scott
     
  12. Moleman

    Moleman New Member

    44
    Mar 12, 2008
    Good info, guys, thanks! So the bottom line is: AFTER trying all common fixes, IF I try this, take off a wee little bit, polish, go to range and test fire, repeat if necessary.

    I think I got it!!!
     
  13. TxCajun

    TxCajun Administrator Staff Member Supporter

    Sep 7, 2004
    Texas
    Yep, just barely break and smooth that sharp edge (90 degree angle) on the bottom, front of the barrel hood.  Don't remove anything that would affect lock-up.
     
  14. tul9033

    tul9033 New Member

    4
    Jul 26, 2007
    I saw this thread and thought, I'm having the same problem.  However, now it sounds different.  My ejected brass is flat on one side (the bullet side).  Instead of a circle I'm getting these:

    [​IMG]
     
  15. TxCajun

    TxCajun Administrator Staff Member Supporter

    Sep 7, 2004
    Texas
    IIRC, flattened brass is a sign that the round is getting scrunched by that bottom edge of the barrel hood.  However, these things are hard on brass (period).  It really gets smacked and then launched into orbit.  :eek:
     

  16. Just curious, but why do you consider it a "problem"?
     
  17. RAT76

    RAT76 Well-Known Member

    Aug 21, 2006
    Oklahoma
    You know this is something that dawned on me this weekend. On the Ruger forum they are not happy with the beat up brass and casings ejected into the next county. On KTOG with the exact same issue we see it as something to brag about. I guess it's a mindset thing.

    [​IMG]

    Yep, that sucker is on it's way back DOWN. (for example ;) ;D )
     
  18. JFB

    JFB New Member

    Jul 25, 2005
  19. tul9033

    tul9033 New Member

    4
    Jul 26, 2007
    Is it not a problem?  That is/was my question.  None of my other pistols have flat spots on fired brass.  It indicates to me that there is a flat spot in the chamber.  Is that normal?  I've never seen it. Or maybe it is happneing during ejection which would be much less of an issue than a chamber issue.
    What's your take?



    Just curious, but why do you consider it a "problem"?[/quote]
     
  20. adamsesq

    adamsesq New Member

    Dec 25, 2006
    Just curious, but why do you consider it a "problem"?[/quote]
    [/quote]

    My take:

    Does it feed, go bang and send lead down range when you pull the trigger, eject and load the next round? If so, no problem.

    *None of your "other pistols" in this caliber are as tiny and light weight as this one and that leaves a lot less room here so things like brass do hit things like barrel hoods or frame corners as they go bye bye. As long as they still do the above - no problem.

    -Scott

    *Well, there might be one that is an ounce heavier but in all other ways nearly identical (coincidence?) that you might have, but oh ya, that one does the exact same thing too.