[moonshot]

Hello again.

I am still waiting for Keltec to get their act together on the peening slides. Had they been on top of things, I would own four P3at's. I still hope to, but unless I can actually see the slide on a NIB example and determine for myself that it has full thickness around the guide rod hole, I will not be buying any more.

My one and only P3at has not (yet) peened to the point of being a problem, and I plan on using this gun for the purpose for which I bought it - being a self-defense firearm.

This post is not a vent on Keltec, however. It is about ammo.

I currently have my P3at loaded with Corbon DPX rounds. I have seen the gel and wet pack tests, and I too was impressed. The more I thing about it, however, the more questions I have.

The DPX is only an 80gr bullet, and that is not very heavy. Weight is what helps ensure penetration. The DPX may expand well, but that only hinders penetration. The larger the surface area of the bullet as it passes through any medium, the more it will be slowed down. It takes mass to keep the round going. What happens if the soft copper bullet encounters a dense material on its way through the target - material like leather, a pack of cigs, bone, etc.

P3at's are carried a lot, and many are stuffed with DPX rounds. Have any been used in actual self-defense encounters yet? If so, how have they performed?

Would not a heavier round (like the 102gr Golden Saber) be a better bet, if for no other reason than its potential to punch through heavier material and still penetrate?

This is all just speculation on my part - I don't know much about pullet performance. I know in tests the DPX seems to be the best bet out there, but tests only go so far, and I don't believe in a free lunch. If the DPX expands so well, there must be a catch - either it doesn't penetrate well or it is going to deform if it hits something dense and not expand.

Am I way off on this?

moonshot

 

[Bobo]

I had similar questions in relation to JHP rounds in general. Particularly. what happens when bone is encountered. Not many tests have been done with bone or simulated bone.

I was using Gold Dots as my JHP ammo, but was going to switch to DPX once my supply of Gold Dots ran out. Then Oldgrandpa did tests with JHP's out of a P-3AT using 3/4" plywood as simulated bone.

The DPX which almost always expanded very well in all the other tests I've seen, instead compressed inwardly when it hit the plywood (bone). This was completely unexpected but not good!

On the other hand, the Golden Saber did quite well as it has on most other tests I've seen.

As a result of those tests I now have purchased a supply of Golden Sabers rather than DPX to replace my Gold Dots.

This is a link to the tests (you will have to register to access the thread):
http://usrange.org/smf/index.php?topic=804.0

 

[fatman]

There are several ways to look at this.

2pp has speculated that one should not rely exclusively on hollow points because among other things they will expand when hitting bone and not punch through to the vitals. If plywood is comparable to living bone perhaps this is a plus for DPX.

But is plywood comparable to living bone? Maybe, but I have doubts.

What I do see from many tests is that DPX fired from a P3AT seems to have the best combination of expansion and penetration when not hitting plywood. If living bone is comparable to plywood and the DPX doesn't expand when hitting it, then all it's energy can be used to penetrate through the bone to the vitals. I think this is a good thing.

In my mind the important thing when defending with a P3AT and the marginal .380 cartridge is to be able to fire many shots quickly into the center of mass of the BG. I doubt that the BG will notice the difference between Golden Sabre and DPX if you can do that.

I personally switched from Golden Sabre to DPX but that's just me. I wouldn't loose any sleep if I could only get GS in the future.

 

[rcmodel]

+1 Fatman.

I tend to think of the P3AT as a (very small) single-barrel shotgun.
With only one round of low-velocity 000 Buck-Shot!

Put them all COM, and hope for positive results!

rcmodel

 

[Deadeye]

Although this does not relate to the 380, it does relate to ammo in general.

I used to hunt dear with a 30.06 with 165gr bullet. Always did the job, but was not...shall we say.. a pleasure to spend time shooting off the bench.

Then I bought a new .243. Several Gun Writers will tell you that the .243 is to "light" a bullet to do any real damage with on dear sized game. But I have a brother that has shot dear at 450 yds with his bull-barrel .243 and dropped them with one shot, so I tried one.

It was a real pleasure to shoot, so it got shot more often. When it came to dear season only once did a Buck fail to be taken quickly and cleanly with it (that one time I first shot the buck at 25 yds and the bullet basicly blew straight through with out any expansion). What it has always done to the insides of a dear is as much, if not more, than any I've shot with an .06.

In the end it is bullet placement that makes all the difference. Shoot in the vitals and they will go down. The average human body is what.... 12-18" thick. If the load makes it through the first 6-9" it has definately hit the vitals, if you were aiming correctly.

Think Smart and Shoot Straight.