Community for Kel-Tec Shooters banner
1 - 20 of 44 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,633 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've got 200+ rounds through my p3at since I bought it a few weeks ago and now I think the guide rod is beating the crap outta the slide.  These are the best pics I could get from a 12 megapixel camera.  From the pics can any of you tell me if this is peening or not; I think it is.





 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,108 Posts
You have peening >:( I've had two slides with peening and they both started this way.  You can use the washers to stop/slow the peening or send back to KT for a new slide. I opted for new slides since I live only 5 mi from KT.
Jim
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
32,240 Posts
Looks like it to me.  Whether or not it will progress is unknown.  Some stopped right there, others not.  I'd probably send it back. You may want to wait until after the holidays since they normally shut down for 2 weeks. Either that or send it back today and hope they get it done before they leave.  :-/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
898 Posts
Yep, that is what mine looks like. Using the nylon washer to hopefully stop or at least slow down the peening on my gun. However, once I get a second P3AT (I'm waiting to get one in HC) and prove its reliability the slide goes back to Kel-Tec for replacement.

Good luck with yours ....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,984 Posts
peening for sure. send it back, get a new one

wait until after the holidays, and get a washer in the mean time
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,633 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for confirming that guys. :( After the holidays it goes back to KT for a replacement and in the mean time I have my p11 that will finally get carried again. Poor little gun was feeling neglected anyway.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,112 Posts
Sorry for the bad luck torrent. What's the first 3 # on the Ser#? Just wondering about when it was made. I'v had washers in mine and no probelms after that. The first started like yours and I just have not sent it in yet. I will one day . I hope yours is an old one that sat around 'nib' from last year and not a continuation of the problem.  :-/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,633 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
What's the first 3 # on the Ser#?
J8QXX

I called keltec this morning and bought another HC slide ($103) that will be shipped in a couple of days. This was easier than returning my old one and having to wait until after the holidays to get it back since I work 500 miles away from the home fires and didn't want to deal with the hassle. Hopefully my new slide will be there waiting for me when I get home so I can ship my old one back for a refund of the purchase price. Customer service was great: I had a problem, Lori had the solution, and no questions were asked. I would have expected nothing less from keltec. I said that to say this: their quality control sucks! >:( 30,000 slides go through before someone acknowledges there is a recurring problem? I'm a huge fan and love my p11 but I hate that keltec was unable to catch this problem before now.

All they would have had to do was fire 500 rounds through a few test pistols and the peening problem would have become apparent. How much more would that have cost the company? It definately would have saved them from having to replace X number of slides at their expense and the p3at would not have the reputation it has now. What's worse some customers, and members here, have had to send the replacement slide back again. Assuming my new slide fixes the problem this will be the last p3at I ever buy. Not the last keltec though...

Josh-who's just a little p!ssed right now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,201 Posts
Josh - you are VERY lucky. KT stopped doing the slide purchase/return sometime this summer. You got special dispensation!

I am not sure that you meant to imply it, but it was not a matter of all of the 30,000 slides being bad. Nor was it something that shooting some of the first ones would have revealed a problem later on. It APPEARS that slides are made in batches and dumped into one big sorting/pull bin without regard to batch codes and that some (one or more we don't know a full answer to) batches are bad but mixed in with quite a few batches of good ones. A nightmare to sort out especially since there is a question as to whether visual inspection would do it. And definitely a good example of why keeping parts sorted by batch number is a very good mfg idea!

Yours is also one of very few HC models to have developed a problem from what we have heard about.

-Scott
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,633 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
KT stopped doing the slide purchase/return sometime this summer. You got special dispensation!

When I asked if I could still do that there was no hesitation on the other end at all. Now that I know what I asked for isn't an option anymore I'm most impressed that they still honored my request. Like I said before, Keltec's customer service ranks up there with the best out there in my book.

I am not sure that you meant to imply it, but it was not a matter of all of the 30,000 slides being bad.
Sorry if I confused anyone. No, not all 30,000 slides were bad, I don't think. That seems almost impossible to me. That is, however, a large number to through before recognizing the existance of a major problem in some of them. Even testing 1 out of 1,000 guns (or 5,000 or 10,000) would be better than not testing any at all. I knew the p3at had problems when I bought mine and I assumed the risk of getting one of the bad ones. I wasn't worried because I knew Keltec would take care of it, and they have.

If it seems I'm being hard on KT, I'm really not. Making a gun that small and light that packs as much punch as it does is very hard to do I would assume. I know that metal guide rod is there for a reason.

And definitely a good example of why keeping parts sorted by batch number is a very good mfg idea!
I couldn't agree more!
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
32,240 Posts
JusTom said:
I spoke with a longtime employee about the problem and I was told that there was a problem with a batch of material and that the engineers had thickened the guide hole by .008" and they were using a different type drill to do that step.

Here's a few stat's that he threw out and I was impressed.

Kel Tec manufactures 110,000 guns a year and has had problems with less than 5% of them

Only Ruger and Glock make more guns a year.
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1196519291/19#19

Based upon serial numbers, we calculated that the affected pistols were from a period when about 30,000 slides were made.  I would image they do have some kind of batch identification in place but in a case like this, that wouldn't matter.  I don't think they could very well recall 30,000 pistols and throw away the slides because 1500 (5%) might peen if they are shot enough and a handful might actually fail (boing).  Outside of ktog, I bet the average P3AT owner does not shoot the gun much.  Most, I bet, may get a box of ammo run through them before they hit the sock drawer.  The price attracts a lot of folks who just want to keep a gun around the house.  Peening was/is a big deal at ktog, and looking at it through the eyes of someone with a bad slide, it seems like an atrocity.  But out of those 30,000 slides, I bet they have only had to replace a couple hundred or so (SWAG).  In the big picture, it only makes sense to replace a few slides as they trickle in rather than dumping 30,000 slides in the gulf, 28,500 of which are perfectly fine.     

torrent said:
  All they would have had to do was fire 500 rounds through a few test pistols and the peening problem would have become apparent.  
I know they test fire a few rounds through each gun before shipping it.  I don't know if they still "torture test" pistols that have been in production for 5 years; probably they do to some degree.  However, at this low failure rate, they would have to shoot hundreds of rounds through 25-30 pistols from that period to find one that was going to peen.  Peening to failure (spring pops out) was probably some very small fraction of a percent.  You can't torture test a large enough percentage of production to quickly find an issue that may only surface after several hundred rounds in such a small percentage of the guns.  No doubt the service department tipped off the engineers about this issue long before QC would have found it.

I'm very glad they allowed you to purchase a new HC slide and return yours for a refund.  I know folks who were refused when they asked for that deal.  That CS employee's job was to tell you to "send it in".  Once everyone reads this, I'm sure she'll be sorry.  Starting tomorrow, anyone that needs any new part will want to buy one and return theirs later for a refund.  When told that is not company policy, they'll say, "But I heard on ktog..."  KT CS probably hates us on certain Monday mornings.  :-/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,412 Posts
torrent said:
I knew the p3at had problems when I bought mine and I assumed the risk of getting one of the bad ones. I wasn't worried because I knew Keltec would take care of it, and they have.
exactly! i had the exact same decision to make when i realized i needed a smaller carry gun than the P11, which was acquired thanks to KTOG. and yet again, thanks to the guys here and knowing that if it broke, there was no hesitation or shopping, it was a direct search for a P3. and it broke after less than 40 rounds. but it was a quick fix! ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,633 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
That CS employee's job was to tell you to "send it in".
She did and I told her that I was working 500 miles from home and it would be difficult to make all of this happen. Policy or not, she probably considered this a special circumstance and didn't even hesitate or try to talk me out of buying a new slide. That's quality service!

Starting tomorrow, anyone that needs any new part will want to buy one and return theirs later for a refund.
I almost get the feeling I'm being reprimanded for coming on here and telling everyone how this whole issue has played out.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
32,240 Posts
torrent said:
I almost get the feeling I'm being reprimanded for coming on here and telling everyone how this whole issue has played out.  
Not at all.  It was intended to be humerous...

TxCajun said:
When told that is not company policy, they'll say, "But I heard on ktog..."  KT CS probably hates us on certain Monday mornings.  :-/
None-the-less, it might be best to not always mention when you get special dispensation.  That is proably why they stopped this practice this past summer.  Everyone was asking for that deal.  Probably the bean counters didn't like that.  Who knows? ;)
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
9 Posts
adamsesq said:
Josh - you are VERY lucky. KT stopped doing the slide purchase/return sometime this summer. You got special dispensation!
I just got a new P3AT and I sure hope this doesn't happen to mine. Looks pretty serious. I don't know why KT wouldn't do the slide purchase/return. They're not out any money and it looks like this problem will cause the slide to be replaced. Doesn't look fixable.

I've had other companies do this for me. I was on a trip last year when my Garmin GPS died under warranty. They shipped me a new one next day air and billed my credit card $800. Promptly refunded when I returned the unit after my trip and it could have probably been fixed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,201 Posts
Penguinbio said:
[quote author=adamsesq link=1196854179/0#10 date=1196983303]Josh - you are VERY lucky.  KT stopped doing the slide purchase/return sometime this summer.  You got special dispensation!  
I just got a new P3AT and I sure hope this doesn't happen to mine.  Looks pretty serious.  I don't know why KT wouldn't do the slide purchase/return.  They're not out any money and it looks like this problem will cause the slide to be replaced.  Doesn't look fixable.

I've had other companies do this for me.  I was on a trip last year when my Garmin GPS died under warranty.  They shipped me a new one next day air and billed my credit card $800.  Promptly refunded when I returned the unit after my trip and it could have probably been fixed.

[/quote]

Uh, they are out credit card fees at a minimum. A vendor pays percentages on both sales and returns. Not to mention if you have too many returns (credits) you get hit with more fees from many credit card processing companies. This plus the man hours to deal with two more transactions per return is paying a lot. I don't mind them saying no, but I also appreciate them (or any other vendor) listening to special circumstances (like Garmin in your case) and dealing with it appropriately.

-Scott
 
1 - 20 of 44 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top