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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi! Another newbie here. :) After reading this message board for a few weeks I decided that I had to have a P-3AT that a local gun shop had just received. It was so small and cute that I just had to have it. My wife surprised me by buying it for my birthday (today). I have two Glocks in 9mm, a G17 and a G26 that I bought for CC. The 26 is very accurate and fun to shoot but too big to hide well in summer attire. I have never had one problem with either gun. I was really hesitant about buying the Kel-Tec because of all the problems that I've read about with them. The KT slides easily into my pocket with the Uncle Mike's #1 pocket holster. I haven't been able to shoot it yet but I have done the fluff and buff and added some white paint to the front sight. I've been carrying it everywhere with me since I brought it home. I hope it goes BANG when I finally get to a range to try it out. I was able to get one box of WWB with the gun so I can carry it loaded.

I have two questions: 1) What is everyone's opinion of carrying it with one in the chamber? I don't currently, but I'm considering fully loading it. 2) Has anyone every had to pull and/or use their KT .380 in a real life occurrence? I've read tons of ballistic reports on the Kel-Tec and the .380 ammo but so far I have not seen any reports on someone actually using it for self defense or even on an animal. I'd like to know what effect it has. I feel relatively safe around a hunk of ballistic geleton and wet newspaper I have an eerie feeling that I am under-gunned while I am carry it. Please tell me of your experiences (if any). The P-3AT is so "toy-like", do bad guys take it seriously? :-[
Roger
 

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It seems to me that if you don't carry one in the chamber - ready to go - that you put yourself in the position of effectively saying to the BG, "Wait just a moment while I get out my gun and load it. I'll let you know when I'm ready to continue." The carry method should include ways to ensure that the trigger won't be pulled unless your finger does the pulling. Any weapon that can't be reliably carried ready to use should not be carried as a primary weapon. I believe that the P3AT is safe to carry for primary defense; even in a pocket with proper holster.

As to having ever had to use mine, that is a subject I don't discuss in open forums (written or oral). As a Boy Scout leader, I believe in "Leave No Trace," and practice that all I can with this type of subject.

On another note, the 380 is the same diameter as the 9mm. The BG will effectively see just the end of the pistol, and that hole will look huge. If the weapon is fired, the noise and flash will be scary too. Most BGs are not commiting their acts because they are looking to get hurt. They generally pick their targets because they believe that the odds of getting what they want without danger or injury to themselves are in their favor. Things that change those odds or their perception of them tend to make them leave quickly.
 

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HI Rog, welcome. You've hooked up with a good crew. 1st rule of gunfighting? have a gun. The p3 does that. I"m a 24/7'er with mine. I carry 9mm when I can, but I always have the p3 also. i've got both on now. Have I used it? if you mean shot and killed and attacher, no. If you mean "been prepared" in a wide array of situations, yes. Like Chasef said, bg's are looking for the wounded gazzel, not the healthy ones. I always walk tall and aware, but even more so since I started carrying. I first started carring without one in the pipe. That did not last long. In for a penny, in for a pound. I realize that in these lean times it is hard to get lots o' trigger time in .380, but be careful of using an untested gun/shooter as SD. That is not to imply that you are not a good or competent shooter, but if you have not shot this gun, then the combination of you and the gun are untested. I had 1 or 2 misfeeds in the first few rounds. I'm convinced it was me and not the gun, but a misfeed is a misfeed. Both parts need to be working. Have fun, be safe and remember, Shoot, clean, lube, repeat. ;D
Lop
 
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One of the County Commissioners for Knox County, TN - Greg 'Lumpy' Lambert - is also a used car salesman (owns the lot.) A couple of years ago, a man killed another man, a complete stranger, in order to steal the victim's truck. The killer (although Lambert had no way of knowing it, at the time) showed up at Lambert's dealership, saying he was looking for a car. I don't remember all the details, but basically Lambert got suspicious, the killer apparently went for his own gun but Lambert (having his hand in his pocket, already) outdrew him. The killer fled and, based partially on Lambert's calling the incident in, was captured by the cops. If Lambert hadn't managed to present his firearm, first, he might not be alive, today. It has since come to be known that Lambert pocket carries a P3AT and that was, apparently, the gun he had on him that day, so I would say that in a 'real life' situation - at least that particular 'real life' situation - the P3AT was quite effective. (Lambert is a strong 2A supporter, gun collector and HCP holder - I really wish I could like the guy, but he seems quite slimy and self-serving in a lot of ways, IMO.)

There was a link posted in a thread on KTOG, recently, to an article about a private citizen having used his legally carried firearm to stop an armed robbery at an AA 'clubhouse'. The armed robber was shot, fled and ended up dropping dead a few yards down the street. That private citizen, if my understanding is correct, used a KelTec .32. If a KT .32 can get the job done, then surely the .380 version can, too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The indoor range that I visit frowns on people that carry one in the chamber so I kinda got use to that. Also my first auto was a Glock and I got nervous carrying one in the chamber without some kind of manual safety. I do agree that it seems pretty stupid to carry that way. I've always filled up my wheelguns so why not the autos. I guess it's time to change my ways. The very long trigger pull on the Kel-Tec seems safer than the Glocks, but even the Glocks have the long pull so it's time to fill-er-up.
Roger
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
This is hard to believe.
I called our local indoor range and asked if they were open tonight to try my new P-3AT.
He answered "Yes"  ;D
So I asked if he had any .380 ammo to shoot at his range  and got another "Yes".  ;D
"How much?" I asked.
He said...........$65 per box. :'(

And I said, "Are you crazy!"

Roger
 

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If you're gonna carry a gun, then carry it loaded. A gun with a full mag and an unloaded chamber is an unloaded gun! SD situations happen in seconds not minutes. No BG is going to wait while you load your chamber gun. If you're worried about the trigger accidentally getting pulled, put the thing in a holster. If you're going to carry with the belt clip and the exposed trigger bothers you, do as I did and make your own trigger block like the Saf-T-Blok for the Glock. The point is that there is no excuse for carrying an unloaded gun. An unloaded gun will get you killed just as quick as carrying a knife to a gun fight will.

BTW, no one will their head on straight will tell anyone of a SD situation where they had to pull the trigger and shoot another human being. With the sue happy culture we now live in anyone who dares talk about such things is opening themselves up to litigation. The best policy is to keep your mouth shut if you've had to shoot another human being.
 

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hey, 65 bucks for a box of 250 sounds like a good deal to me. ;) I see you're up in the keystone state, I'd let you fire a few of mine if you lived a little closer (n. Ga). Keep looking, don't pass a wally world without stopping in and checking what they have.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I guess I need to reword my original message. Has anyone actually shot "anything" (i.e dogs, cats, mountain lions, abominable snowmen, etc.) with their P-3AT? I am interested in what damage the little gun will do with it's short barrel and minimal cartridge. Yes, I know that you know of an Eskimo squaw that killed a grizzly bear with a 22 short fired through a hollow whale bone and killed it dead but I'm interested in what the little K-T guy will "do", not what the ballistics say it "should do".

BTW: I just got back from sacrificing half of my only box of .380's at the local indoor range and it did go bang, bang, bang...........bang 25 times without any hiccups at all. It wasn't too happy loading the first round of WWB into the chamber because they have a flat point but it fed every one from the clip that followed perfectly. At 7 yds I was giving the target a bad belly ache because I was shooting about 8" low but I had a few near where I was aiming. I had a very hard time seeing the sights even with a dab of white paint on the front sight. The range has very low lighting. Well at least I know that it fires and I still have half a box to carry until the ammo situation gets better. I think the F&B helped as I had no problems so far.

BTW2: that was $65 for 100 rds. not 250.
 

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Here's a recent shooting with a P-3AT. Unfortunately, it doesn't give details of the final results.
http://newsok.com/pharmacist-is-glad-he-defended-store/article/3371710

Bobo

Update!...
A video was just added that says that one perp. died. According to the shooters account, it would have to be the one he shot with his P-3AT. He also had a Taurus Judge, but never fired it.
 

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A bad guy with any experience at all reads the man not the gun.

If you are determined to defend yourself with deadly force and have any kind of gun he will see you as a serious threat. If you have not made that prior mental commitment to defend yourself with any means necessary he will see that to and you would be much better off not to have a gun at all.

A person I know well once stopped a serious attack by a known killer armed with a screwdriver by presenting a tiny .22 LR mini revolver with full intent to use deadly force. It was the clear intent to use deadly force that stopped the attack not the gun.

Your .380 is absolutely enough gun.
 

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Walmart Ammo:

The Walmarts, at least in the Orlando, Florida area, still get in ammo at great prices...the problem is that they don't get very much and it's gone within a few hours.

I just happened to be passing by the sporting goods counter as the sales clerk was stocking ammo.  I purchased two boxes of 100-count .223 for $38.00 each  and two boxes of 50-count 380 for $14.00 each.

Came back later that night with my Visa and it  was  ALL GONE.  :(
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
LOP, I was wrong about the 100 rds for $65. It was actually a 50 rd box. He had lots of ammo (except for .380). I heard him tell a customer that he sells ammo at $1.25 per round. I don't know if he sells every caliber at that though.
 

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Bobo said:
Here's a recent shooting with a P-3AT. Unfortunately, it doesn't give details of the final results.
http://newsok.com/pharmacist-is-glad-he-defended-store/article/3371710

Bobo

Update!...
A video was just added that says that one perp. died. According to the shooters account, it would have to be the one he shot with his P-3AT. He also had a Taurus Judge, but never fired it.
Do you think the defender will be prosecuted for 'emptying his gun into the robber's chest'?
I certainly hope not. This sends a strong message to potential robbers- never know who's armed and who is willing to shoot back to the death. Sort of like hanging horse-thieves. One publicized hanging may prevent several future occurances. At least for all but the densest most determined criminal.
 

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He shot until the threat was neutralized. According to the police it was defense. That being said, it does not mean that the BG's family won't sue in civil court. That double jeopardy catastrophe needs to be eliminated. If the police/court finds a shooting justified, the shooter shouldn't have to worry about a vindictive family hell-bent on destroying a person for justifiably defending themselves. >:( I don't care how much they claim "Johnny" wouldn't hurt anyone. Especially in this case, the security system caught it all on tape. Case closed in my book.
 

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billjohnso20 said:
He shot until the threat was neutralized. According to the police it was defense. That being said, it does not mean that the BG's family won't sue in civil court. That double jeopardy catastrophe needs to be eliminated. If the police/court finds a shooting justified, the shooter shouldn't have to worry about a vindictive family hell-bent on destroying a person for justifiably defending themselves. >:( I don't care how much they claim "Johnny" wouldn't hurt anyone. Especially in this case, the security system caught it all on tape. Case closed in my book.
The BG family CAN'T sue. Castle Doctrine. Which all states should have:

Oklahoma Governor Brad Henry (D) signed HB 2615, the NRA-backed "Castle Doctrine" self-defense bill, into law.

"I want to thank Governor Brad Henry for signing this victims' rights bill into law," said NRA-ILA Executive Director Chris W. Cox. "When you're confronted by a criminal, you don't have the luxury of time. This bill states that if victims choose to stand their ground and fight, their decision will not be second-guessed by the State of Oklahoma. The ability to protect yourself, your children, or your spouse from harm is important, whether you're in your home or outside."

HB 2615 simply states that if a criminal breaks into your home, your occupied vehicle or your place of business, you may presume he is there to do bodily harm and you may use any force necessary against him. It also removes the "duty to retreat" if you are attacked in any place you have a legal right to be.

Further, [highlight]HB 2615 provides protection from criminal prosecution and civil litigation for those who defend themselves from criminal attack. [/highlight]The "Castle Doctrine" bill met with overwhelming, bipartisan support, passing 96-2 in the state House and 83-4 in the Senate.
 

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Haugrdr,

I was unaware of the Castle Doctrine in Oklahoma. MO has adopted it as well. I'm glad to see that he will not have to deal with a civil suit. :)
 

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From what I can find, 22 states have some form of Castle Doctrine or "stand your ground" laws and statutes on the books.

Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Washington and West Virginia.

Several others have legislation pending: Montana, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, Washington, and Wyoming.

Rick
 

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billjohnso20 said:
If the police/court finds a shooting justified, the shooter shouldn't have to worry about a vindictive family hell-bent on destroying a person for justifiably defending themselves.
Perhaps, but that immediately brings to mind the the OJ Simpson case.  Obviously not the same thing, but OJ's quality of life would be a lot different right now, if the Goldman's hadn't sued him in civil court. . . . I'm just saying.
 
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