[Pancho_Villa]

Spent last weekend at the arrea gunshow. Things were better than the fall shows. Maybe people got their income tax checks? Also helped that there was a rodeo in the next area.

I left my table after I dumpped a couple of guns I didn't want anymore. Went to the front door to see wat was coming in. Ran into a guy that had just come in with a Ruger precision rifle over his shoulder. No, he was not selling it, but he did have alike new Glock 22, .40 cal in the box with one mag. He wanted 450 so he could get some stuff for his new rifle. Ammo & an optic.

I lowballed the guy on the Glock at 350. He kinda perked up and said 375? Draggerd the guy over to my table cause the gun vultures were listening and gathering to outbid me on the Glock. After my buddy and I checked it out good, I offered 360 and he took it.

Sorry, no pics cause my cameragave up the ghost after 12 years.

Thought my day was done for buying stuff on Sat. It was 4 pm and not much was coming in the door. Buddy & I ware eating cany coated penuuts back at my table when a guy went by with a Glock box. I almost let him pass, but what the hell, it was getting slow. He had a Glock 27 in.40 cal. LNIB with 2 mags and cleaning tools. Looked like a Gen 4, but I ain't no Glock Fanboy. I don't really know. He said it was and he wanted 350. I had to aske him again cause I thougt Idid not hear right. He said 350. I asked how he got way back where we were with a sub0compact Glock for only 350? He said he had just sneaked in the back door with his budfies cause the old lady that watchess it just left. That made sense now. I was the first persan he had talked to cause the door was berhin me.. I had to act causer the gun vultures next to me were already looking over my shoulder. Told him 3 and I wouldn't tell anyoner they sneaked into the gunshow. He took 3. SNAGGERD THAT ONE.

O.K. Thery were both .40s ans I already have a G23 in.40. But at those prices I just couldn't pass them up. Already have a G17 in 9 mil. Might sell the G22 and get one in .45, a G 30 or 36.

 

[darkwriter77]

Dang! Pretty good score, either way. I'm not a fan of Glocks in .40 mainly because they took the 9mm platform, bored out the 9mm barrel, and called it good. No wonder they have a shorter service life, those things beat themselves apart in short order (and have a lack of full chamber support for a high-pressure cartridge). Still, that being said, if inclined you could always drop in an aftermarket barrel to remedy the lack of chamber support AND get a caliber conversion barrel to shoot 9mm out of it (two guns in one, woohoo!), and maybe drop in a slightly stiffer recoil spring assembly so it won't beat up the frame as much/reduce felt recoil somewhat.

Or just sell 'em both and getcha' a G40 or G41, which is what you really, REALLY want. Trust me. You do. You just might not know it yet.

 

[Pancho_Villa]

Dang! Pretty good score, either way. I'm not a fan of Glocks in .40 mainly because they took the 9mm platform, bored out the 9mm barrel, and called it good. No wonder they have a shorter service life, those things beat themselves apart in short order (and have a lack of full chamber support for a high-pressure cartridge). Still, that being said, if inclined you could always drop in an aftermarket barrel to remedy the lack of chamber support AND get a caliber conversion barrel to shoot 9mm out of it (two guns in one, woohoo!), and maybe drop in a slightly stiffer recoil spring assembly so it won't beat up the frame as much/reduce felt recoil somewhat.

Or just sell 'em both and getcha' a G40 or G41, which is what you really, REALLY want. Trust me. You do. You just might not know it yet.

I would probably not shoot them enough to ever wear one out. I have had the G23 for 2 years now. Don't think I have fired more than 2 mags through it.

Didn't care for Glocks much. They were too expensive and still are. There are enough used ones out there now that they are getting cheaper on the used gun market.

 

[darkwriter77]

Expect the market to be FLOODED with used G22's, now that the FBI and so many other LEO agencies are starting to ditch .40 S&W and .357 Sig to switch back to 9mm, with ammo costs, pistol service life, and recoil being the three biggest motivators. Police trade-ins of Glocks go for somewhere in the $300 range from what I've seen, and can range from decent to beat-to-crap in terms of condition. They make for great affordable plinkers, if nothing else, just by dropping in a 9mm conversion barrel and 9mm magazine(s), using the same recoil spring. And if for whatever reason 9mm starts to get scarce on shelves again, it's nice to have a .40 on hand because even at the height of the worst ammo shortages, it always seemed to stay in-stock everywhere.

 

[H2OMAN]

Good deals Pancho!

I managed to pick up a pair of G4 G41s, and a G4 G34 over the past few days.
The longer sight radius is so much better for my old eyes, that I'm selling off most of my shorter barrel/slide Glock pistols.

 

[Pancho_Villa]

I had my "po' man's Glock" out today, SW40VE. It ain't much idifferent than teh G22. Well, it doesn't have as good of a trigger, but the grip "feels" better. That's another gun that goes bang every time you pull the trigger. Shoulda kept the SW9VE, but I sold it. It was just as reliable. I keep the 40VE by the bed.

Got a Shield 9 in a swap. It has a much better trigger than the Sigmas. I wouldn't mind having a full size one in 9. My buddy has an SD9VE. Thought it might have a better trigger than the Sigmas, but it doesn't. It is alot nicer looking.

 

[ral357]

Glock the LEGO of the gun world. Best description of a Glock I ever heard: Think of a 1911 that's not all that accurate that you carry cocked and locked but take away the ability to lock it.

 

[H2OMAN]

Glock don't need no lock.

1911 ain't all that accurate.

 

[ral357]

Glock don't need no lock.

1911 ain't all that accurate.

Stock 1911 trigger pull 5.5 lbs average Stock trigger pull Glock 5.5lbs average. How is the Glock safer to carry chambered round than a 1911 cocked but not locked?
No lectures on trigger finger discipline, that applies to all guns.

 

[darkwriter77]

Trigger on a Glock is not 100% cocked, and the pull is MUCH longer than on any 1911. Glocks are designated as DAO triggers; 1911's are single-actions. And Glocks have the scissor-like trigger doohickey and a firing pin block as their main safeties, while the 1911 has a grip safety and manual safety lever, but no firing pin block (on 70-Series type 1911's, anyway). So, neither is safer than the other, per se. They just have two different ways of going about things.

FWIW, the trigger on the SD9VE is actually lighter than an UNMODIFIED trigger on an SW9VE Sigma. However, if you remove the pigtail spring on the Sigma and swap out that other little spring in there for a lighter one (I once did with one from a clicky ball-point pen), then there's pretty much zero difference. Swapping the trigger itself and the springs out with kits from Apex and Wolff recently made a HUGE difference on the SD9VE, though. It's still nowhere near as short or as crisp a pull as a Glock (especially one with an aftermarket trigger bar, springs, and a bit of polishing), and the reset is still almost all the way out, but it's still a LOT better than before - brings it down from around 8 lbs. to somewhere around a more reasonable 5.5 lbs. or so.

 

[H2OMAN]

Stock 1911 trigger pull 5.5 lbs average Stock trigger pull Glock 5.5lbs average. How is the Glock safer to carry chambered round than a 1911 cocked but not locked?
No lectures on trigger finger discipline, that applies to all guns.

Who said it was 'safer'?

The two different designs make one just as safe as the other.

 

[ral357]

Who said it was 'safer'?

The two different designs make one just as safe as the other.

So you have no problem carrying a 1911 cocked without the safety engaged

 

[H2OMAN]

So you have no problem carrying a 1911 cocked without the safety engaged

I don't care for the 1911, that's why I've been carrying Glock pistols since 1985. :rayof:

 

[darkwriter77]

So you have no problem carrying a 1911 cocked without the safety engaged

Go back and re-read my post. It seems you are not familiar with the inner workings of striker-fired pistols VS single-action pistols. Carrying a Glock, Sig P320, Steyr, M&P, etc. is NOT the same as carrying a 1911 in Condition Zero.

 

[ral357]

Go back and re-read my post. It seems you are not familiar with the inner workings of striker-fired pistols VS single-action pistols. Carrying a Glock, Sig P320, Steyr, M&P, etc. is NOT the same as carrying a 1911 in Condition Zero.

I am very familiar with striker fired pistols. I have tried to talk myself into one intermittently through the years. After all all the cool kids have one. Almost bough a Springfield xd. Trigger was a bit heavier with a little more travel before firing than the Glock plus it has a grip safety. In the end I filled the plastic 9mm slot with a CZ P-07.
Back to Glock vs 1911. If anything twig, shirt tail, finger gets in the trigger guard and exerts 5.5 lbs pressure on the trigger, no matter what you call that little trigger lever, the Glock she go BOOM. The 1911 with the safety off, no one in their right mind has ever advocated cocked safety off carry, something twig, shirt tail, finger gets in the trigger guard and exerts 5.5lbs of pressure on the trigger the gun she go BOOM........IF the grip safety is ALSO depressed at the SAME TIME. These are facts plain and simple.

Examples of Glock leg are many and easily found
http://www.indystar.com/story/news/...accidentally-shoots-self-at-gun-shop/4666967/

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Glock leg

 

[darkwriter77]

Twigs in your trigger guard = your holster sucks (or you're not using one).
Shirt tail in your trigger guard/holster = sloppy, complacent holstering technique (ALWAYS clear your garment and ALWAYS be cautious when re-holstering - don't just SHOVE it in there).
Finger in the trigger guard = poor trigger discipline. Depending upon a manual safety or a grip safety to safe you from a NEGLIGENT discharge is simply going to promote further poor trigger safety habits.

The case of the police chief's negligence can best be summarized simply by his own words:

“I need to pay more attention,” Counceller said. “I know what the dangers are. It was pure carelessness on my part.”

Cases of "Glock leg" are simply mislabeled, as if they are exclusive to that brand or type of firearm; instead, they should be called "derp leg," because it takes a special kind of idiot to shoot themselves in the leg through an act of negligence and then say it was simply the gun's fault. Even having a grip safety and a manual safety on a 1911 doesn't save one from a negligent discharge, as famously evidenced here (NSFW language alert, for those who haven't already seen it a thousand times before):

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3kJ6SU3ycs[/ame]

Negligence is a human problem, not a mechanical design issue - NOTHING is idiot-proof. Poor safety habits are what cause bad things to happen. Double-action revolvers generally have no manual safety on them, and they have VERY long, VERY heavy trigger pulls. Negligent discharges have occurred with those, too, and yet nobody that I can recall has ever blamed the firearm for lacking a manual safety lever and/or grip safety for that outcome. Complacency, carelessness, bad habits, and haste are all contributing factors. If you don't trust yourself enough to safely handle a firearm such as a Glock or other similar pistol and depend upon mechanical devices as a substitute for proper safe practices, then it's entirely your right to choose whatever other style of firearm (if any) you find "safe enough." But meanwhile, MILLIONS of owners of Glocks and the like have NEVER experienced negligent discharges, solely because they understand the design of the pistol and the necessary precautions involved in handling/carrying them. It would be one thing if only super-tacticool-ultra-high-speed "operators" were the only ones that could successfully handle/carry such pistols safely, but when those numbers are in the MILLIONS, and the number of folks who do negligently discharge such firearms is hardly even a percentage of that ... again, I'd say the issue is the individual and not the design.

 

[Pancho_Villa]

Got an offer from my local trading buddy. A Remmy 700 .25-06 in fair outside, good inside ccondition in a swap for the G22. Told him I was probably going to swap it at the next couple of shows. I have the G23 and G27 which are easier to pack. And I alreday ahve a SW40VE which is much the same as the G22, except for the stiffer trigger. He has other stuff I want, but he is just pushing this one cause it was one that wasn't as nice as the others. I would rather have a S&W Model 19 in .357 or Ruger BlackHk, .45 convertible. he won't swap those. I could take back my old Browning A-Bolt .25-06. It is still in nice shape. I traded it to him for a Mini 14 at a time when I had given up all my .25-06s. I would rather have a short action 700 Remmy, but he ain't got one to trade excpt a .243 and I have one in better shape. Another one I wanted was a nice Mid 60s vintage Ruger .44 mag carbine. I have tried to get that one several times.

His daughter wants a .40 cal M&P and he doesn't want to pay for a new one. So, he wants to swapsomething for the G22 and hope that she will be satisfied with it. Well, I still have a week to fugwid him before the next show. I'll give him a couple of days and call him again. He was alrready here this week to check out the Glock 22.

 

[darkwriter77]

Having shot my buddy's G22 side-by-side with my M&P40, I can say the G22 does FEEL like it recoils a little bit less. However, the G22 (as all Glock .40's and even 10mm's go) does not have full chamber support of the cartridge, thus they have more of a reputation for going KaBoom now and then. The spent casings that come out of it have the typical "Glock smiley" going on where the brass will actually bulge near the rim from the unsupported area - kinda scary, really. This is because Glock simply took the existing G17's 9mm design and just upsized the barrel and magazine to fit the .40 S&W cartridge, using the same recoil spring and most everything else - it was created as an afterthought. The M&P, however, was designed from the start to handle .40 S&W, so it has full chamber support and, thus, doesn't bulge brass or have a shorter service life from beating itself apart.

Again, you CAN always just drop a 9mm conversion barrel or aftermarket .40 S&W barrel in the G22 (or G23 or G27) to get more use out of it and/or to get past the unsupported chamber thing, but it adds to the cost. But if you've already got another trade in mind for it, then ... there ya' go.

 

[H2OMAN]

Good deals Pancho!

I managed to pick up a pair of G4 G41s, and a G4 G34 over the past few days.
The longer sight radius is so much better for my old eyes, that I'm selling off most of my shorter barrel/slide Glock pistols.

Currently updating night sights & adding extended slide stops as needed.

 

[GoesBang]

And then there is this. . .