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I'd submit that using a "less lethal" or "non-lethal" defense inside a home is bordering on insanity.

If/when it fails you'd be facing an enraged attacker who'd be inclined to kill you.
People who invade homes are not normal people, they tend to be sociopaths that have no concern for other peoples life.

Do you really want to put your and your families life in the hands of a crazy person?
No one really wants to shoot someone, dead or not, but you have to make the mental decision that your and your families lives are worth something, and that an invader is not someone you can give a "fair chance" to.

The Code of the West does not demand you give the invader the first shot before you can defend your home.
 

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I'd submit that using a "less lethal" or "non-lethal" defense inside a home is bordering on insanity.

If/when it fails you'd be facing an enraged attacker who'd be inclined to kill you.
People who invade homes are not normal people, they tend to be sociopaths that have no concern for other peoples life.

Do you really want to put your and your families life in the hands of a crazy person?
No one really wants to shoot someone, dead or not, but you have to make the mental decision that your and your families lives are worth something, and that an invader is not someone you can give a "fair chance" to.

The Code of the West does not demand you give the invader the first shot before you can defend your home.

If you choose to use less lethal in a firearm, shoot to wound etc., you are asking for a legal nightmare.

I have spent over a decade teaching what I have used and learned from others who have spent many decades teaching/using in court as professional witnesses for lethal force defenders and or attorneys/ prosecutors.

Avoid mudding the water by creating more possible problems for yourself.
 

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If you choose to use less lethal in a firearm, shoot to wound etc., you are asking for a legal nightmare.
Dittos. Just how does one explain the use of "less lethal" deadly force? Esp' if it goes wrong and the perp dies?

One needs to come to grips with the fact that if someone is in your abode when you're in it they have already come to grips with the fact that you are expendable. You should preferably come to grips with it before the decision is made to have deadly force on site for protection. As it's happening is no time to be wondering "If I can?".
 

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This thread reminded me --- and with the Wifey just getting her handgun license ---- I got her e-muffs --



And transferred her birthday present from my license to her's --
 
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Dead men don't litigate.

Who's gonna say they were an excellent provider, a model father, an upright citizen, when they're dead at the end of your hallway? His family? For God's sake, he was in your home trying to kill you.

Dunno about everyone else, but Florida law pretty much says that its assumed that someone who breaks into your home when you're home is after you, not your things. I agree.

What remorse? Remorse about being alive? Jeeze, this is a typical case of liberal guilt complex. Do what you have to. Be affirmed. Be strong. Be a survivor. And don't be guilty afterward. Having "to live with it" is better than not living. Oh hell... its bragging rights! DO NOT F WITH ME bragging rights!!!!
 

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Dead men don't litigate.

Who's gonna say they were an excellent provider, a model father, an upright citizen, when they're dead at the end of your hallway? His family? For God's sake, he was in your home trying to kill you.

Dunno about everyone else, but Florida law pretty much says that its assumed that someone who breaks into your home when you're home is after you, not your things. I agree.

What remorse? Remorse about being alive? Jeeze, this is a typical case of liberal guilt complex. Do what you have to. Be affirmed. Be strong. Be a survivor. And don't be guilty afterward. Having "to live with it" is better than not living. Oh hell... its bragging rights! DO NOT F WITH ME bragging rights!!!!
We see in recent events, "dead" men *criminals all* litigate all the time, the families.

I wish the feds would institute a no fault law if a shoot is found to be legal-
 

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And the argument put forth by families in a civil case is more or less meaningless. When the home invader is dead, there's always a greedy-ass lawyer (make that greedier-ass lawyer) who approaches the family and tells them that he can win them brazilians of dollars. He gets things all arraigned, goes to court, and... if its in Florida, it gets kicked before its ever before the bench. We do have immunity here. They have to get very twisted arguments to get any moola. For instance, Trayvon Martin's family got money from the HOA, no Zimmerman, because of a note mentioning to call the police then Zimmerman. Zimmerman was immune from civil tort.
 

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And the argument put forth by families in a civil case is more or less meaningless. When the home invader is dead, there's always a greedy-*** lawyer (make that greedier-*** lawyer) who approaches the family and tells them that he can win them brazilians of dollars. He gets things all arraigned, goes to court, and... if its in Florida, it gets kicked before its ever before the bench. We do have immunity here. They have to get very twisted arguments to get any moola. For instance, Trayvon Martin's family got money from the HOA, no Zimmerman, because of a note mentioning to call the police then Zimmerman. Zimmerman was immune from civil tort.
Unfortunately that’s not the way it works in too many places. You can be 100% right, cleared in a court of law if it goes there and still loose the farm. Even if the neardowell grieving family ends up with nothing the lawyers make out and the innocent may still end up broke and in debt.
 

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And the argument put forth by families in a civil case is more or less meaningless. When the home invader is dead, there's always a greedy-*** lawyer (make that greedier-*** lawyer) who approaches the family and tells them that he can win them brazilians of dollars. He gets things all arraigned, goes to court, and... if its in Florida, it gets kicked before its ever before the bench. We do have immunity here. They have to get very twisted arguments to get any moola. For instance, Trayvon Martin's family got money from the HOA, no Zimmerman, because of a note mentioning to call the police then Zimmerman. Zimmerman was immune from civil tort.
Charlie, everyone doesn't live in Florida...in fact most Americans don't live in Florida.

Your laws are great, but, only your laws.

Read what I wrote. It makes sense, if, and only if, you expand your view a bit.
 

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As Massod Ayoob and others have written, after even a legal shooting, your trouble is just starting.
No matter what you're going to be hiring and paying for lawyers and go thorough a rough period of your life.

As any lawyer can tell you, you can sue any one, for any reason.
It may get thrown out of court for many reasons, but you still have to pay the legal bills.
Also as any lawyer can tell you, juries can and do often deliver shocking verdicts.
Later they may get dismissed, but the key words are "may" and "later".

As I tell people, anyone who invades an occupied home is not a normal, sane person.
These tend to be unstable, mentally defective individuals.

In short, do you want to put your and your families lives in the hands of a mentally defective person?
 

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As Massod Ayoob and others have written, after even a legal shooting, your trouble is just starting.
No matter what you're going to be hiring and paying for lawyers and go thorough a rough period of your life.

As any lawyer can tell you, you can sue any one, for any reason.
It may get thrown out of court for many reasons, but you still have to pay the legal bills.
Also as any lawyer can tell you, juries can and do often deliver shocking verdicts.
Later they may get dismissed, but the key words are "may" and "later".

As I tell people, anyone who invades an occupied home is not a normal, sane person.
These tend to be unstable, mentally defective individuals.

In short, do you want to put your and your families lives in the hands of a mentally defective person?

This isn't true in Missouri ( or apparently Florida).
 

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Well ok then! I've been schooled. Please, bring wasp spray to a gunfight. Its the best way. The only way. The right way. Dammit, its the AMERICAN way.... jeeze.
 

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If involved in a righteous HD incident, do yourself and your family a huge favor and speak to a lawyer immediately no matter how clear-cut the situation is. No matter what state, no matter what jurisdiction, no matter who is asking the questions. The cost of a lawyer is going to be a small price to pay to avoid as many legal " complications " as possible. Then there is the social fallout as you ( and your family members ) may be shunned by some, others will never look at you the same way again. You may find out who your real friends are at this time and you might be shocked. You may lose your livlehood, either immediately or over time. If you've ever threatened anyone, rhetorically, in jest, or any other way, it just might surface at this time. If you've ever displayed a combative or physically aggresive reaction to a situation or simply intimidated someone you had a issue with, it could come out to your detriment now. If you ever say, posted comments on a forum where you give an impression that you would be somewhat eager or proud to "blow away some bad guy" who attempts to make you or yours a victim, this just might come back to bite you at this time. Ditto for idle talk among your sporting aquantances. The list of possible fallout just goes on and on....

Consequences like the above from a legal HD incident are not necessarily going to result, but they can result no matter where you live.

Again, all this taken into consideration, always defend yourself and your family to your absolute utmost and pray to God you never have to.
 

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Well ok then! I've been schooled. Please, bring wasp spray to a gunfight. Its the best way. The only way. The right way. Dammit, its the AMERICAN way.... jeeze.

Who the hell said use wasp spray? I was talking about Missouri gun law.


  • Missouri offers an absolute legal defense against all criminal and civil remedies if self –defense is proven justified, granting attorney fees, court costs, and reasonable expenses.

There are 3 categories of liability with regards to wrongful discharge of a firearm. Assault. Battery. Negligent discharge. If you aren't found guilty of one of those you are guaranteed an absolute legal defense.
 

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Missouri does have a self defense protection law...... Ask the couple of St Louis lawyers who merely displayed unloaded and non-functioning guns against a mob how that's worked out for them.

As a number of police have told me, if you have to shoot, DON'T talk to the police.....
Claim your Right not to talk to the police and IMMEDIATELY call a lawyer.
People have gotten themselves into trouble by saying things under stress that come back to haunt them.

The police in ANY location are seldom your friend and a prosecutor is often looking to bump up his stats.
You have a Right to be silent....TAKE IT.
 

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Missouri does have a self defense protection law...... Ask the couple of St Louis lawyers who merely displayed unloaded and non-functioning guns against a mob how that's worked out for them.

As a number of police have told me, if you have to shoot, DON'T talk to the police.....
Claim your Right not to talk to the police and IMMEDIATELY call a lawyer.
People have gotten themselves into trouble by saying things under stress that come back to haunt them.

The police in ANY location are seldom your friend and a prosecutor is often looking to bump up his stats.
You have a Right to be silent....TAKE IT.

Well it’s gonna work out just fine for them actually, even if you did get some of the facts wrong. None of which have anything to do with the law I’m talking about.

For starters, Mark’s AR works and was loaded. Neither one of them fired a shot, much less shot someone in self defense. Then you have the fact that a Soros bought circuit attorney is using the case for political gain, got caught doing just that and not only is the case going to get dropped, the city of STL is most likely going to be sued and end up settling for millions of dollars. And even if that didn’t happen, the AG and the governor have already signaled that the MCCloskey’s will not be tried or convicted of a state or federal crime. The governor even said he would pardon them if he had to. Which he won’t.

If one of them would have shot someone they would have had a difficult time claiming self defense. Basically they are a pair of liberal lawyers who in all reality have no business with guns because they are both idiots. They violated every single gun safety rule I can think of.

Nevertheless, using a BLM activist circuit attorney who provably has a Hard on for white people, especially cops and is currently not prosecuting 90% of the murders that happen here ( and it is the top per capita in the country, again) as an example of how you can’t trust Missouri legislators when they embed in the state constitution a guarantee of immunity from liability on ANY SHOOTING DEEMED SELF DEFENSE, is ludicrous.
All you have to do is look and see how many people have been sued here for a legitimate self defense shooting since the constitutional amendment. I can save you the trouble. The answer is none.
 

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Missouri does have a self defense protection law...... Ask the couple of St Louis lawyers who merely displayed unloaded and non-functioning guns against a mob how that's worked out for them.

As a number of police have told me, if you have to shoot, DON'T talk to the police.....
Claim your Right not to talk to the police and IMMEDIATELY call a lawyer.
People have gotten themselves into trouble by saying things under stress that come back to haunt them.

The police in ANY location are seldom your friend and a prosecutor is often looking to bump up his stats.
You have a Right to be silent....TAKE IT.
I have a relative who has been the city judge of a fair sized city in Mississippi for the last 30 years. He has said repeatedly to identify yourself, ask for a lawyer, and otherwise keep your mouth shut. To everybody. He says that more people have lost their cases in his court from running their mouth than for any other reason. I believe that's the best legal advice I've ever heard.
 
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