Community for Kel-Tec Shooters banner

21 - 40 of 64 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
147 Posts
You wouldn't be anyway. I'm not saying shooting with no ear pro doesn't damage your ears, but have you ever noticed that when you're on the range and you get caught with your muffs off your ears ring? When your hunting that doesn't happen. When your *** is on the line it won't happen either. There is a degree of "Auditory Shutdown" when adrenaline is pumping.
Wow ---- lets dissect this a bit ---- when I hunt its usually outside ---- no walls for the bang to bounce off of -- when I park the muffs go on my head before I get out of the Jeep & stay on till I get back in -- and in my younger days --- my ass was on the line oodles of times ---- a clear - purposeful mind will help ---

"There is a degree of "Auditory Shutdown" when adrenaline is pumping" = I'd call that panicking --
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
147 Posts
Totally agree about having the weapons in condition 1.
Again ---- my hand gun isn't a weapon till I get to court to explain my actions to the judge -- LOL
 
  • Like
Reactions: dragpack

·
Registered
Joined
·
266 Posts
Wow ---- lets dissect this a bit ---- when I hunt its usually outside ---- no walls for the bang to bounce off of -- when I park the muffs go on my head before I get out of the Jeep & stay on till I get back in -- and in my younger days --- my *** was on the line oodles of times ---- a clear - purposeful mind will help ---

"There is a degree of "Auditory Shutdown" when adrenaline is pumping" = I'd call that panicking --

Ok, let's dissect this. For starters I used the hunting analogy because I doubt you have ever had to discharge a firearm inside a house. I have. I'm telling you it's painfully loud if you were to just walk into your living room and blast one off right now, but it won't be like that when you're staring at a guy heading towards your kid's room at 3 am.

Also, if you're a guy who can confront a deadly threat, fresh out of bed, with no adrenaline my hats off to you. It has nothing to do with panic. Let me ask you something. How many times have you been shot at in your life? I have been shot at twice just this year. I work in a hostile environment in statistically the most dangerous section of the most dangerous city in the country every day. I never panic.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
266 Posts
Again ---- my hand gun isn't a weapon till I get to court to explain my actions to the judge -- LOL

Semantics. Your handgun absolutely has been a weapon since it rolled off the assembly line. Calling it a weapon or a sub sandwich makes zero difference. Legally speaking. And if you're in your house confronting a threat and you end up in front of a judge you live in the wrong state.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
147 Posts
And I see where this is going ----

Whatever works for you --
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
147 Posts
You win --- happy now -- LOL
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
107 Posts
"I think I hear something down stairs" ?

"I'll have a look" --



And now I keep the elect. muffs on the night table also --
As do I. E-muffs are not only a good idea to block out much of the blast, but the better ones amplify the ambient sounds quite nicely-good for those of us that already suffer from hearing loss. I'm never without them at a Steel Challenge, also. If I even think I have the time, I'm donning mine, and have already a few times during house-clearings.

You wouldn't be anyway. I'm not saying shooting with no ear pro doesn't damage your ears, but have you ever noticed that when you're on the range and you get caught with your muffs off your ears ring? When your hunting that doesn't happen. When your *** is on the line it won't happen either. There is a degree of "Auditory Shutdown" when adrenaline is pumping.
Auditory exclusion does absolute zero to prevent permanent damage to your hearing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
266 Posts
As do I. E-muffs are not only a good idea to block out much of the blast, but the better ones amplify the ambient sounds quite nicely-good for those of us that already suffer from hearing loss. I'm never without them at a Steel Challenge, also. If I even think I have the time, I'm donning mine, and have already a few times during house-clearings.

Auditory exclusion does absolute zero to prevent permanent damage to your hearing.
Should I assume you didn't actually read my post or??????
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
53 Posts
First issue, wasp spray- as noted a very bad idea. Second issue, mind set- can you live with killing someone? Perhaps I should ask, can you live with someone killing your family if you could have stopped it? Third issue, state laws. Some states don't have a castle doctrine. What to do? Hey folks, let's all sneak out the backdoor and run for our lives. Might be okay for California. In Texas where I live an intruder is going to meet a shotgun loaded with #4 buck (NOT birdshot). It will stop any threat. If he lives that will be in God's hands.
If you live in a blue state or Canada you may be going to jail but will probably beat the rap (maybe not in Canada) and your family will still be alive. Take your choice. I would rather fight my case in court than in an undertakers office.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
529 Posts
Skydancer is not a fool. But I think the idea of using wasp spray for home protection is foolish. Blind 'em? What if they have on glasses? And worse, it does not incapacitate, it only deters for perhaps a moment, or not at all. The home "invader" may resume their invasion, plus be pissed off at the spray job.
We think of someone breaking in while we're home as some sort of violent occurrence. Sometimes it is just that. Other times, in fact most times, it does not start out that way. You may know the person, have some trust in them until things go south. There may be more than one offender, for instance, one to distract while the other does the actual entry (or outdoor theft while you're distracted). There are all sorts of scenarios.

My own -
A drunk came into my kitchen, started rummaging thru the silverware drawer, his beer on my counter. He was looking for a bottle opener! Browning Hi-Power at his torso, no shots fired, police broke his nose "accidentally" on my kitchen cabinet door pull.

Three youths on top of my AC unit right after a hurricane... it was still raining in fact. Trying to jimmy open the crank out window that was left exposed (no shutter). We had no power. I heard 'em, snuck round the other side of the house with a 45 auto. They scattered, although... I thought the one that scattered in my direction might have been after me, but he turned and hauled ass on foot down the road, so no shots fired.

Neighbors pit bull came into my garage, went thru the dog door into my house and killed one of my cats as well as bit me (in my own kitchen!) Dog almost met a .44 Charter, but busted the dog door on his way out.

There were other incidents, I won't go into all of 'em. The point is.... the presence of a firearm, where the persons were involved, was enough to end the situation right then and there. Would wasp spray have been effective? Can I just brandish a can or spray, and get the same point across? What if the intruder or offender had a weapon. Rule #1(d) Never bring wasp spray to a gun fight.

So, Skydancer, I appreciate the though you put into things, but I don't think you really connected all the dots, only some of 'em.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
747 Posts
Many people when they think about defending their home think about :
What gun do I use, shotgun, pistol or rifle?
Will it stop someone in time?
Will there be over penetration?
What about the kids if I'm not home?
And a lot more, more then can be listed.
One question that is rarely asked is:
( In a clean self defense shoot, no legal repercussions. )
I just killed someone, now what?
You must live with that the rest of your life, or, heaven forbid, your child has to, you were not home.
This thought can and has prevented victims from defending themselves effectively.
Having had kids at home and not being a blood thirsty, heartless psycho., we came up with an alternative, keeping the lethal defense as a possible 2nd choice.
A large can of Spectracide WASP & HORNET Killer by all exterior doors, in the kitchen and many other locals around the house.
Anyone from a child (old enough ) to adult can use it, no laws ( in ANY state ) regulating use or possession, and 90% non-lethal,( most people that see it ask if we have wasp problems) Effective from 20 feet, it shoots a straight stream of concentrate. You can even get it at Wal Mart.
It will temporarily blind the " Perp"and send them screaming away in extreme pain, eyes burning like fire, and difficulty breathing as well.
If used, the police will have no trouble finding the " PERP", just check the emergency rooms for someone suffering from " pesticide poisoning", they will be VERY sick, half blind and thinking that they are dying.
Clean up is easy to.
Anyone have other effective alternates for the home, child friendly of course, please post.
The last thing most of us want is to kill someone, even in self defense.

Using spectricide is actually seen as a chemical agent meant for insecticide- which would be seen in court as an attack with a chemical agent.

He goes into detail, enjoy.


https://www.mattcanovi.com/wasp-spray-for-self-defense-a-dangerous-myth/#:~:text=Why wasp spray should not,Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act).



I've taught legalities surrounding defense of self as a civilian/le/mil for over a decade. I cannot stress enough the need for real information versus the often bandied crap seen at gun ranges by fudds, forums and more recently facecrack posts.

Unless you know, absolutely know. Don't do it or disseminate it

1. I have used firearms in self defense, once in a full deadly force incident, several other times as a dissuader to deadly force.
2. I firmly believe medical training/specifically emergency trauma training is far more beneficial as i have used that in dozens of incidents throughout the last couple of decades.
3. Solid actual firearms training with legitimate non timeshare/pyramid type institutions is essential. Primarily, Massad Ayoobs MAG series of classes and other solid instructors.
4. Train, not plinking or shoot fast competitions, but training in formative ways that reinforce movement while shooting and accuracy is also essential.

But hey, you do you! I have never been arrested, detained or sued. Sure, I've been to court a few times, but, because I followed the laws, and utilized best practices...no lasting issues.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
219 Posts
The generally accepted legal and moral standard for self defense is... If you honestly believe you or another person is in legitimate danger of death or serious harm, only then can you shoot.
If the situation is that serious you need to use a serious defense, which usually means a firearm.

Famed Border Patrolman Bill Jordan said it best......
"Like being 'just a little pregnant' there's no such thing as shooting someone 'just a little'. If you have to shoot someone, shoot 'em GOOD".

In a situation where lethal force is NOT warranted, the use of a self defense spray like pepper spray may be appropriate, but things have a bad tendency to go South in such cases.

Currently we've seen people battling the police and getting shot after pepper spray and tasers failed to work.
"Less lethal" options like sprays, tasors, bean bags, and rubber shot are used by the police only when another officer with a GUN is there as back up so that if/when the less lethal fails the situation can be ended without an officer getting killed.

For years police knew that some people were not affected by the old tear gas sprays, and today even pepper spray often fails to stop situations.
Using a bug spray is not a smart choice when pepper sprays are readily available.

The question remains as to under what situation you'd use a spray or tasor on an intruder in your home.
The best possible choice for a home owner with an intruder inside or outside is to ready a firearm, put you family in a safe area, and CALL THE POLICE.
THAT'S why you pay taxes. Let THEM deal with a potentially violent encounter.

It's a natural tendency for a person to go see what that noise is or what that stranger is doing in your yard.
Having a can of bug spray is an invitation for a fast funeral....yours.

There's also the strong possibility of a lawsuit for causing serious harm to someone.
Remember, wrongful death or harm lawsuits are common even when it's a clear case of self defense.
Criminally you may be found innocent, but there's the CIVIL side where you can be sued by anyone for any reason.
You may well win, but it's questionable how well you've won when you get your lawyers bills.

Having a layered defense strategy is just common sense, and that would be the option of purpose-made defensive pepper spray or taser and escalating to a firearm.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Where I live you are easily within your rights to stand your ground. Defend your family and property with deadly force within the home and outside to a large degree.

Bad guy in the house and you have any reasonable fear,,, it's a clean shoot. No questions, especially in the rural area that I live in. But while the local police may send me home after some questions and reviewing the video around my home there may still be a civil lawsuit. The drugged up dead perp has family, a knocked up girlfriend, a "child with no father". Defending those civil suits will cost many thousands. Not to mention the cost of replacing your bloodstained carpet.
Escape if possible and put a few rounds through the thief's radiator to help the local PD catch him 5 miles from your home.

If in doubt spend an hour or 2 watching www.ccwsafe.com videos. And yes. I am a CCW Safe member. I carry often, I practice regularly. I don't want to spend weeks and tons of money defending against some crack mama looking for a lottery ticket.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
As a combat veteran I have a more open view on taking of a life. I completely understand the “it’s us or them” concept. I hope that if the day comes, my kids understand as well as they can and they are prepared to defend their self’s.

But if I was going to use a nonlethal alternative, it would be nonlethal ammunition like rubber bullets and beanbag rounds. I also have a few German Shepherds on standby.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
266 Posts
Where I live you are easily within your rights to stand your ground. Defend your family and property with deadly force within the home and outside to a large degree.

Bad guy in the house and you have any reasonable fear,,, it's a clean shoot. No questions, especially in the rural area that I live in. But while the local police may send me home after some questions and reviewing the video around my home there may still be a civil lawsuit. The drugged up dead perp has family, a knocked up girlfriend, a "child with no father". Defending those civil suits will cost many thousands. Not to mention the cost of replacing your bloodstained carpet.
Escape if possible and put a few rounds through the thief's radiator to help the local PD catch him 5 miles from your home.

If in doubt spend an hour or 2 watching www.ccwsafe.com videos. And yes. I am a CCW Safe member. I carry often, I train weekly. I don't want to spend weeks and tons of money defending against some crack mama looking for a lottery ticket.

In my state you are immune to civil liability in a legitimate self defense shooting. They can’t sue you if it’s deemed a clean shoot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Re: beanbag rounds, do not assume they are non-lethal. We were trained by the manufacturer and told that, depending on the individual, beanbag wounds were usually lethal @ 15 yards or less. How big is your house?
 
21 - 40 of 64 Posts
Top