Featured Defending your home

Discussion in 'KSG Bullpup Shotgun' started by SKYDANCER, Sep 12, 2020.

  1. SKYDANCER

    SKYDANCER Member

    21
    Jun 27, 2020
    Many people when they think about defending their home think about :
    What gun do I use, shotgun, pistol or rifle?
    Will it stop someone in time?
    Will there be over penetration?
    What about the kids if I'm not home?
    And a lot more, more then can be listed.
    One question that is rarely asked is:
    ( In a clean self defense shoot, no legal repercussions. )
    I just killed someone, now what?
    You must live with that the rest of your life, or, heaven forbid, your child has to, you were not home.
    This thought can and has prevented victims from defending themselves effectively.
    Having had kids at home and not being a blood thirsty, heartless psycho., we came up with an alternative, keeping the lethal defense as a possible 2nd choice.
    A large can of Spectracide WASP & HORNET Killer by all exterior doors, in the kitchen and many other locals around the house.
    Anyone from a child (old enough ) to adult can use it, no laws ( in ANY state ) regulating use or possession, and 90% non-lethal,( most people that see it ask if we have wasp problems) Effective from 20 feet, it shoots a straight stream of concentrate. You can even get it at Wal Mart.
    It will temporarily blind the " Perp"and send them screaming away in extreme pain, eyes burning like fire, and difficulty breathing as well.
    If used, the police will have no trouble finding the " PERP", just check the emergency rooms for someone suffering from " pesticide poisoning", they will be VERY sick, half blind and thinking that they are dying.
    Clean up is easy to.
    Anyone have other effective alternates for the home, child friendly of course, please post.
    The last thing most of us want is to kill someone, even in self defense.
     
  2. Toakey45036

    Toakey45036 Well-Known Member

    218
    Oct 26, 2015
    Lebanon, OH
    Excellent idea. Another non-lethal method would be a pack of trained attack dogs. A little more expensive than a can of bug spray, but a lot more fun. The intruder may kill one or two with his hand gun but the rest of the pack should take the fight out of him/her. 1E91071A-F5F5-4245-8C82-93F6141DB3CE.jpeg
     

  3. ral357

    ral357 Well-Known Member

    711
    Aug 21, 2015
    Wasp spray is a poor idea. Just get pepper spray, it works, is available and doesn’t open the can of worms that using a neurotoxin intended for bugs can.
    There is ample information out there on wasp sprays lack of punch on humans.
     
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  4. Tex Ohfive

    Tex Ohfive Well-Known Member

    105
    Feb 22, 2020
    Wyoming
    I believe the mental attitude and situational circumstances MUST be drilled in as the most important elements of HD. Determining long, long beforehand the situation one under which one will deploy a deadly weapon so that there is no hesitation when deadly force is justified and hopefully no reaching for a weapon in a situation where deadly force is NOT justified. For instance, even though you're carrying, some jerk cursing you in a Walmart parking lot over a parking space ( this happened to me a couple of weeks ago ) never justifies displaying your weapon. Even if the jerk jumps out of his vehicle, punches you, and turns on his heel to leave, your life is not in danger so for God's sake don't shoot him. Arguments, implied threats, harassment, etc and other stuff like that is not an immediate threat on your life. When carrying concealed, a person should go out of their way to not escalate any kind of conflict, just in case the situation DOES escalate anyway.

    On the other hand, someone breaking into your home when it is obviously occupied is either planning to kill the occupants or are prepared to kill the occupants. In this case, I believe your families lives are threatened and you should deploy every ounce of force you can bring to bear to neutralize that threat.

    The fallout from a "gray area" shooting can be devastating. Sometimes its devastating even when totally justified.

    A true story: In Pearl, Mississippi where I lived in the 1980's, a man I'll call J.B. was awakened by his teenage son at around 12 midnight who told him that someone was on the roof of their house with a baseball bat. J.B. retrieved his revolver and father and son went to their back door. The son went outside into the back yard while J.B. stood in the doorway. When the son yelled at the person on the roof asking what was going on, the rooftop guy jumped off the roof to land in the yard between J.B. and son and immediately raised his bat and rushed J.B. who fired one shot to head of Mr. Rooftop killing him instantly. A baseball bat is a deadly weapon, especially when brandished like weapon, so you would think this would be a simple case of self defense. But no, the Rankin County prosecutor had J.B. charged with murder. Not self defense, not justifiable homicide, or not even manslaughter - murder. Mr. Rooftop was 18 years old, but the prosecutor always referred to him as the "murdered child". The whole thing smelled like the prosecutor was trying for publicity for a political bid for the near future. No matter what J.B.'s defense council presented, the prosecutor insisted on going through with a murder trial and got the judge to agree to doing so. At the end of this ordeal J.B. was cleared of wrong doing, but the expense, effort, and publicity cost J.B. his job, every cent he had in the world, and his standing in the community. J.B. left Pearl and moved his family to north Alabama to try to start his life over.

    I knew J.B. ( not his real initials ) because before he was charged with murder, he was the editor of the Pearl Press, the city's newspaper, and the teacher of my Sunday school class.

    So please be damned certain about what situations you will fire that weapon. You can be totally justified, morally and even legally, but you can still be put through a life changing ordeal.

    That being said, always protect your family from harm. Always. On this point there is no gray area.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020
  5. TxCajun

    TxCajun Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator Supporter

    Sep 7, 2004
    Texas
    You can google wasp spray self defense, etc and find multiple articles suggestion several reasons why it's a bad idea. Bear spray seems like a better idea.
     
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  6. SKYDANCER

    SKYDANCER Member

    21
    Jun 27, 2020
    You will not find an argument from me on protecting self & family at any and all cost.
    My apologies if anything seemed to be implied other wise.
    I was just looking for the " other ways " some of you have devised that don't necessarily involve lethal force. No permit/license required. When I went through reserve officers training in Ca., pepper spray ( above 1.5 oz I think ) required a permit/license to carry or purchase, including bear spray which didn't make sense to anyone including the instructors.
    Hair spray+lighters was OK, pesticide spray OK, but not bear spray.It was Ca. though. It might have changed by now.
    As Toakey showed--we also have "wireless alarms X 3. 1 Dachshund, thinks she's a Rottweiler, 1 Reindeer Chihuahua, he just thinks he's a BAD A**, and a Siberian Husky,she will play you to death.
     
  7. SKYDANCER

    SKYDANCER Member

    21
    Jun 27, 2020
    Many times lethal force is not needed or wanted, such as a drunk neighbor trying to get into the wrong house, no threat to safety but will not stop.
    A pi**** off ex-boy friend of your 16 yr old daughter that tries to get in"just to talk", that sort of thing.
    I've had both happen, only our daughter was 14, and her ex-boy friend actually tried to fight me, it didn't work for him.
     
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  8. Floyd Eye

    Floyd Eye Well-Known Member

    207
    Dec 6, 2019

    Good points but thankfully we have laws that actually protect us from ridiculous prosecutors these days. Nevertheless, if your life is in danger you can't just let some dude kill you because you don't want to be charged with murder. Absolutely these things need to be drilled and drilled and drilled.

    Some of us don't have kids at home or neighbors that close to us. I would never trust a can of wasp spray or bear spray to save my life unless I had no other choice. Thankfully that is not the case.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2020
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  9. John Galt

    John Galt Member

    3
    Sep 5, 2020
    Wasp spray doesn't even burn human eyes. I use at least 6 cans a year in the barns with some drifting back on me and trust me when I say it isn't a deterrent. Pepper spray is slightly better but not much (been sprayed and still could charge forward). A 12 gauge loaded with #7 shot (birdshot) is better if there are other people in the house because it will barely penetrate a sheetrock wall. A pistol or short barreled rifle is best if you REALY know how to safely use it and serious about stopping the threat.

    Never pull the trigger unless you have no reasonable escape route. But if you can't escape a deadly threat shoot until the threat is unable to hurt you. Only shoot until the threat drops their weapon or turns away from you. It's not like the movies. Most bad guys run away at the 1st shot. But people rarely just drop when shot. It usually takes time before a single shot debilitates a person so be prepared to shoot again if the threat persists. Never shoot at a person moving away from you. You really don't want the legal problems.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020
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  10. jonnin

    jonnin Well-Known Member

    Sep 28, 2010
    Mace and pepper spray are designed for this task. So are tasers. All of them have a reputation for not working; tasers do better but its still a very high chance that your one and only shot (the dart type) missed or failed to work or that you got shot 20 times getting close enough to use the touch kind (most effective in hands of LEO where one guy stuns while 3 others can shoot if needed). Military, LEO and others are even trained by getting sprayed with mace/pepper and some may even be tased (don't think that is normal, maybe high end training only?). It does not stop you, it just makes you madder and meaner and possibly less rational, for the sprays. You can certainly make or buy better tools than wasp spray, but even the other 'alternatives' simply lack the ability to incapacitate reliably.

    If this crap worked, cops in liberal states and prisons etc would not be armed with anything else; and the armies of the world would drop bug-bombs on each other maybe.

    Its true, a gun may not stop the bad guy(s) in time. But I feel my odds are vastly improved by being better or at least equally well armed as the bad guy(s) with weaponry that has been prove to be effective at stopping criminals. I also prefer to be as far away from the target as possible. Then again, I have no regard for violent criminals and do not consider their live to have any value at all. If, heaven help me, I had to kill someone in my home, I would be more upset at my hearing loss and drywall damage.
     
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  11. Floyd Eye

    Floyd Eye Well-Known Member

    207
    Dec 6, 2019
    These legal problems do not exist inside your house. Not around here anyway. You have no duty to retreat even outside your home in a Castle and stand your ground state. I can assure you if someone breaks in my home I won't be looking for an escape route. That said I would never shoot anyone, in my house or anywhere else, if they were running away.
     
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  12. Stevie-Ray

    Stevie-Ray Well-Known Member

    105
    Jan 16, 2008
    I couldn't count on that. Not here. With our present governor looking to turn this state into Venezuela lite, I'm quite sure there are myriad lawyers looking to set legal precedent to impress her, in even the most obvious self-defense cases.
     
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  13. Tex Ohfive

    Tex Ohfive Well-Known Member

    105
    Feb 22, 2020
    Wyoming
    Wyoming is also a Castle and stand your ground state. Even if it weren't, intruders in your house is a direct immediate threat to your life. Respond accordingly with all the force you can bring to bear to end the threat swiftly and with finality. Like I stated earlier, an intruder that breaks into an occupied house is either planning on killing or prepared to kill the occupants. The days of occupants being tied up and left alive have been over for a very long time now.

    Catch someone trying to steal your vehicle? Arm yourself and confront them. If they flee, don't shoot. Self defense is an impossible sell when thief is shot in the back and/or unarmed. If however the thief is armed or otherwise presents a threat to your life.... you know what to do.

    But justified or not there can and probably will be consequences. I absolutely pray that no one has to be in a situation to have to defend themselves with deadly force. All human life has value.
     
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  14. Floyd Eye

    Floyd Eye Well-Known Member

    207
    Dec 6, 2019
    Absolutely.
     
  15. Ricekila

    Ricekila Well-Known Member

    145
    Aug 2, 2019
    NY
    "I think I hear something down stairs" ?

    "I'll have a look" --

    [​IMG]

    And now I keep the elect. muffs on the night table also --
     
  16. Floyd Eye

    Floyd Eye Well-Known Member

    207
    Dec 6, 2019

    So it's the middle of the night and you hear glass break. You're going to take the time to put on ear pro?
     
  17. Ricekila

    Ricekila Well-Known Member

    145
    Aug 2, 2019
    NY
    Yes - absolutely ----- I'll hear a pin drop or the floor creek ------ 100 % --

    And not be deafened by the two shots - center mass --
     
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  18. Floyd Eye

    Floyd Eye Well-Known Member

    207
    Dec 6, 2019

    You wouldn't be anyway. I'm not saying shooting with no ear pro doesn't damage your ears, but have you ever noticed that when you're on the range and you get caught with your muffs off your ears ring? When your hunting that doesn't happen. When your *** is on the line it won't happen either. There is a degree of "Auditory Shutdown" when adrenaline is pumping.

    That's not to say I disapprove of your plan. I assume your layout is one that will afford you the extra couple seconds, assuming that is the first thing that crosses your mind. It definitely wouldn't be the first thing that crosses my mind though.
     
  19. Ricekila

    Ricekila Well-Known Member

    145
    Aug 2, 2019
    NY
    Soooooooo --- anything that will give you a tactical advantage is no good ?

    Pistol is racked every night ( one in the chamber ) & safety is on ----- no need to warn them ahead of time -- drop the muffs on my head - turn on --- that only takes 45 minutes or so --- now I can just about hear any whispering --
     
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  20. Floyd Eye

    Floyd Eye Well-Known Member

    207
    Dec 6, 2019

    I never said that. I'm just saying I doubt the first thing I'm going to worry about upon being awoken by an intruder is screwing around with ear muffs. And I, and I'm sure you, already have a pretty significant tactical advantage. I have no idea about your layout and you have no idea about mine, these are just general observations. And again, I'm not disapproving, I am just somewhat surprised.

    Totally agree about having the weapons in condition 1. Almost none of my pistols have safeties and the ones that do are not engaged. Shotguns and other long guns are fully loaded safeties on.