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Discussion in 'P-3AT' started by clayflingythingy, Nov 2, 2007.
now that is one super looking laser. and very compact also. looks like the activator button is direclty under the trgger guard. Looks really nice. CS doesn't make junk, so it will probalby be a good laser..
I like what I see! Guessing that the cost would be close to that of the Armalaser (sp?) in order to be competative.
Do you think that coming out with another laser for the P3AT attests to the popularity of the gun?
Be nice if the Crimson Trace folks worked out a deal with Desantis or whomever to offer a pocket and posibly an IWB holster for the P3AT Crimson Trace laser combo.
Wow I like the looks of that MUCH better than the Armalaser... I hope the price is comparable. MSRP is yet to be determined according to the FAQ.
That does look nice althought I still am not hooked on the "grip" the pressure switch to turn on idea but will have to see.
The pocket holsters should be easily modifiable with some stitching changes/deletions just like they are now for the armalaser.
Based on CTs history, I bet $229-$249 which is going to make it hard to swallow!
-Scott (who is somewhat peeved as CT's R&D department around the corner from me told me personally in May that they had no plans for a CT for any KT)
I understand the grip activation concern.
I recently purchased a set of Crimson Trace grips (LG 105) for my S&W 637.
The activation button is on the front strap under the trigger guard. The grip was so tiny I could not wrap my hand around the grip, activate the laser, and pull the trigger at the same time. A buddy of mine has smaller hands and had no problems.
I was fortunate in that the supplier agreed to swap out the LG 105 for a set of 305s. (The 305's did cost a bit more.)
With the extra rubber on the 305's making the grip"fatter", I was able to use the laser. I love the way it works, but it could be a problem with the 3AT for guys (or gals) with big hands.
If some one here is a member of the Crimson Trace forum, maybe they could point them to this concern.
Or better yet.... since I am such an avid supporter of CT, they will send me a prototype to test for them! ;D
Just noticed the switch on the CTC for the P3-AT. For those that have used CTC lasers, do you have to keep constant pressure on the switch for the laser to function or does it stay on for a while after activating the switch?
Anyway, my thinking is that while the CTC looks better than the Armalaser, the touch-sensitive (no moving parts) switch on the Armalaser is a much better design. Plus there are already holsters available for Armalaser equipped Kel-Tecs. IMO the CTC had better be cheaper than the Armalaser if they want to compete. I can at least say that I wouldn't buy one unless it is cheaper than the Armalaser, say around $100. Anyone agree/disagree?
THe ones that I have fondled on glocks and revolvers have all been squeeze hard enough to stay on, otherwise it shuts off. I think a timer would be great. As do I think a pulsating laser would be great - hear that Rick????
That's exactly what I was afraid of...
While it has the CT name and it's a different design....I think the AL is a better fit for the 3AT :-/ I don't care fore "trigger guard mounting clamps" and the pressure switch. IMHO the frame pin mounting and sensor on the AL wins hands down. But that's just MHO..... For me to switch over it would have to be a marked improvement, rather than just a more popular manufacturer with what I consider to be a less efficient design..... If it was 59.95 I would consider it, but if it's close in price, I'd still go with Arma Laser
My only gripe with the AL is that you can't change the batteries without messing up the zero.
I wonder if the CT also has this problem.
But the zero is SO easy. Just before you change the batteries do a quick site across the room to the wall. Note where the gun sites aim in relation to the red dot. If it changes drastically after changing the batteries (mine never have), reset to that same approximate area. I would guess that your shaking or pulling the trigger slightly different will get you off target more than the slight deviation that might exist after a quick and dirty alignment like this.
I have done my first site in with new ALs making sure they align with the iron sites at 15-20' and never had to make any changes after that.
Now the P40 is a different story - waiting to install that and will probably have to install the red dot 8-12" lower than the iron sites at that distance.
My experience is that when I change the batteries on the AL the zero goes off because taking the unit apart causes the laser unit to move internally.
If I adjust the zero using the sight picture that was correct before the batteries where changed the gun indeed shoots fairly accurately but…
Once the gun has been fired a number of times the zero moves again because the recoil causes the internal laser unit to go back to where it was before the unit was taken apart to change the batteries.
Now the zero must be adjusted again. Once this “after shooting” zero is done it stays zeroed until the unit is taken apart again.
This causes me quite an expense and a lot time and is very dangerous, here’s why.
Say I’m at home practicing dry firing using the AL and the batteries die. I take the unit apart and replace the batteries, adjust the zero by the iron sights. Now the gun is zeroed, but if I ever got into a dangerous situation the first few rounds would go where the dot is, but a some point, and I don’t know when, the dot moves and the bullets go way off. I would be in deep doo-doo.
So that means that as soon as possible I must travel 45 minutes to the closest range and shoot the gun a number of times. I’ve found it can take anywhere from 3 to 20 rounds to cause the laser unit to reset depending how hot the ammo is (Santa Barbara seems to reset it the fastest, usually in under ten rounds). Once the laser is reset it takes a few more rounds to get it right on. So I can use up to about a half a box of ammo just to zero the laser. Then of course I must clean up my brass, and drive another 45 minutes home, then clean the gun for carry.
All this costs gas, wear and tear on the car, range time, ammo, and a lot of wasted time for me. It also leaves me in danger until I can get to the range. This not a good thing.
I talked to Rick at AL about this and his answer was basically that to make the AL so that batteries could be removed without taking the unit apart would make it heavier and larger and he didn’t think that that was a good option.
I was hoping the CT unit wouldn’t have this problem. The CT unit has two possible down sides compared to the AL - it only takes two batteries so they may have to be changed more often, and it doesn’t have the touch sensitive switch. Even so, the battery-changing problem is such a hassle for me I would be willing to give up those two features if the pricing was similar.
Don’t get me wrong, I really like the AL and think it is a fine product especially for the first of it’s type. Rick is a great guy, very responsive to customer feedback, and is very helpful and more than fair in his dealings. I have never voiced this issue before because I didn’t want to put down a great product or a great guy, especially if the problem I’m having is very rare and there was no real alternative anyway. Now that CT is a viable competitor things may have changed. I would much rather stick with AL than switch to another company, but if another brand can take away my danger and costs in time and money I may be forced to switch.
...but will the laser cost more than the pistol? :-/
NOW I am freaking out! I can't say that I have ever shot enough since my battery change to know for certain that it is locked in...Out to the barn. Thanks Bobo - only I can't decide whether that is sincere or frustrated or both.
I agree with "Syndil" and "Drivelane." Although it is a little smaller than the AR, I still like the Instant-On feature of the AR. I recently emailed Rick at AR to inquire about leaving the laser in the "on" position all of the time. I don't recall how long it will hold the a "charge," but it was a very long time. I will stay with the AR. Rick at AR is very easy to speak to personally and has excellent Customer Service--just like Kel-Tec.
i want one
They sure look sleek
The armalaser works SO well that the CT would have to be priced in the $120-$140 range to be competitive. I'm not sure I like how the CT laser changes the grip a bit--making it thicker just below the trigger guard (though I don't know if I'd even notice it--after i cut my rubber-grip wrap-around accordingly).
I have never used an Armalaser. My primary CCW is a Chiefs Special Airweight with CT lasergrips. They are "instant on" in the sense that if you are gripping the gun as if you are going to fire the laser is activated. I have never had any problems. The activation switch for the P3 AT LG looks like it too would be activated by holding the gun in a firing grip. I prefer the looks of the CT product to the looks of the Armalaser. In the long run the market will decide which is best or if there is room for two products.