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You may be suffering with magazine friction issues. A mag that has 200 rounds through it without cleaning is going to be dry and coated with carbon around the feed lips.
Yes, I think you're correct. It was my next thing to try but frankly it showed that characteristic when everything was brand spankin' new with round #1. This time the gun was absolutely filthy from shooting with can attached and the mags are visibly dirty. What do you use for a brush that won't harm the magazine? I was going to wait for a used toothbrush. I couldn't think of anything else. OK, cleaning gun... I had brush on my mind. Maybe q-tips and soap and water will work.
 

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My use of the word was correct just read the problem threads in this forum and watch YouTube video reviews of the CP33. Just in the event you missed them it is almost exclusively mag loading and mag feeding issues.
Using your definition of typical, I would say "proper function is typical of this gun". For every gripe or youtube video there are probably 100 or 1000 that work just fine. Same goes for any other gun,

I have not missed anything. I have also probably owned nearly every KelTec product over the years.

IMO most of the first round feed issues are because people are not paying attention to the staggering of the rounds. If even one does not stagger correctly, the last round will be a very tight fit and most likely would cause an issue with feeding.

I have used probably 20 different types of ammo and they all feed just fine as long as they are properly loaded in the mag. They all also cycle just fine too. after probably 6K rounds I have yet to have one not feed, not cycle, or not go bang. YMMV of course, but if one has rules out the obvious, I would suggest sending it back to KelTec before doing some of the things suggest here.

That said, I do a lot of gunsmithing, and I have worked on my own guns. I had a PMR-30 that was a bit twitchy but I worked that out on my own..
 

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Discussion Starter #43
Yes, I think you're correct. It was my next thing to try but frankly it showed that characteristic when everything was brand spankin' new with round #1. This time the gun was absolutely filthy from shooting with can attached and the mags are visibly dirty. What do you use for a brush that won't harm the magazine? I was going to wait for a used toothbrush. I couldn't think of anything else. OK, cleaning gun... I had brush on my mind. Maybe q-tips and soap and water will work.
I use a new tooth brush. My procedure is first take the mags apart making sure to separate the spring and follower for each mag body. Squirt some dish washing soap into a bowl of warm water, drop in the mag bodies. Next clean the gun. That takes about 15 min. when complete go back and brush the mag bodies as clean as possible. Dry the bodies with a rag, now run a WD40 sprayed rag into the mag body. Clean the spring and follower with the WD40 rag and reassembly. Also don't let the gun get too filthy, after each range secession it must be cleaned and lightly lubed with CLP which is a very light oil. Never use high viscosity oil or grease on the bolt and rails. Using a medium or high viscosity oil or grease will slow the bolt down due to its shear-drag factor. Trust me on this one I have tested this on a number of guns. The issue here is this is such a weak loading design that any slight abnormality will cause problems. While a more robust design can tolerate carbon build ups.
 

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Discussion Starter #44 (Edited)
Using your definition of typical, I would say "proper function is typical of this gun". For every gripe or youtube video there are probably 100 or 1000 that work just fine. Same goes for any other gun,

I have not missed anything. I have also probably owned nearly every KelTec product over the years.

IMO most of the first round feed issues are because people are not paying attention to the staggering of the rounds. If even one does not stagger correctly, the last round will be a very tight fit and most likely would cause an issue with feeding.

I have used probably 20 different types of ammo and they all feed just fine as long as they are properly loaded in the mag. They all also cycle just fine too. after probably 6K rounds I have yet to have one not feed, not cycle, or not go bang. YMMV of course, but if one has rules out the obvious, I would suggest sending it back to KelTec before doing some of the things suggest here.

That said, I do a lot of gunsmithing, and I have worked on my own guns. I had a PMR-30 that was a bit twitchy but I worked that out on my own..
By claiming you think there are 100's or 1000's of CP33's out there that function perfectly, does not change the FACT that a very large number have feeding issues, including mine. There are just too many mentions of feed issues with CP33's for it to be just an odd occurrence. It seems to me sending it back is a waste on time and money because if they had the solutions to fix the feeding issues they would incorporate them into the production guns. I noted in your response that when you have a problem "you work it out on your own" Hmm, isn't that what I am doing here??? My gun is of very recent production and still had feed issues. I have tried every which way to load and check the mag loading but without ramping the chamber, feed problems still existed! So I will do all I can "On My Own" to make the gun function normally and because so many other owners have similar issues I will share advice on ways to make them function better. So, if I were to follow your thoughts, I would think . . . its all my fault for not figuring out the special magic needed to load a CP33 magazine. It should not be that hard to load a magazine.
 

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It took a couple of trips to the range to figure out that I was not loading some of my mags correctly. You can load 33 rounds and have the first round on the wrong side. It is a little hard to get the last round in when that happens. I don't know what I do to get it started on the wrong side but it happens. When you start to load a mag, keep an eye on the loaded rounds. Sometimes the first round will try to load on the wrong side of the follower. The mag will load all 33 rounds but the last one or twp will be harder to load than normal. I also check the stagger of the rounds after I load and some times find that there is one or two that are not correct. I have a leather working tool that has a small round point on one end and a flat curved tip on the other. It now lays on the bench next to my American Nested Speed loader. I can normally fix any rounds that are not correct. I know that it maybe a design flaw but how many 30 + round rimfire mags can you name that are not hard to load? JMHO :shtf::shtf::shtf:

Steve
 

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Discussion Starter #46 (Edited)
It took a couple of trips to the range to figure out that I was not loading some of my mags correctly. You can load 33 rounds and have the first round on the wrong side. It is a little hard to get the last round in when that happens. I don't know what I do to get it started on the wrong side but it happens. When you start to load a mag, keep an eye on the loaded rounds. Sometimes the first round will try to load on the wrong side of the follower. The mag will load all 33 rounds but the last one or twp will be harder to load than normal. I also check the stagger of the rounds after I load and some times find that there is one or two that are not correct. I have a leather working tool that has a small round point on one end and a flat curved tip on the other. It now lays on the bench next to my American Nested Speed loader. I can normally fix any rounds that are not correct. I know that it maybe a design flaw but how many 30 + round rimfire mags can you name that are not hard to load? JMHO :shtf::shtf::shtf:

Steve
How can you watch your loading sequence when you are using a nest style loader that obscures view of the top of the mag? The answer is you can't. A number of posts on the forum have suggested you load the first 6 rounds by hand after which you can use a loader and hope for the best. This is how I load because it works more reliably than loading from the start with a nest loader, which sometimes gets the start sequence wrong.

I laughed at your comment on needing tools handy when loading a CP33 mag. I too have tools that sit next to my mag when loading, its a shame, but necessary.

Its a good thing the CP33 doesn't have any mag or feeding issues that could make this loading procedure even more complicated!
 

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I've found that not every type of round works 100% in the NEST loader. But use the right ammo and it's flawless. I still eyeball every magazine regardless.
 

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I was laughed at your comment on needing tools handy when loading a CP33 mag. I too have tools that sit next to my mag when loading, its a shame, but necessary.
I read all of your post and compare them to my experiences. As far as watching my loading with the nest loader. I can see through the back of the mag after 6 to 7 rounds are loaded. I also check the mag after it is loaded. Yes that is a lot of trouble but this is a very high cap mag, not a 7 round 45 ACP. My pistol Gives trouble loading the first round with CCI 40 gr. HP rounds but it is getting better with more rounds through it. It loads first round with Federal LNRP every time. I know some guns have problems out of the box but not all of them. Now that I have started watching my loading AND USING the nested loader, I have 0 failures. JMHO and YMMV :):):)

Steve
 
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I too have no feeding issues with my cp 33. And before I got a nest loader feeding problems didn’t exist. It was just a slower process loading the mags.
 

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Well... RIP CP33 I guess. I deep cleaned the gun and magazines, loaded them, lubed the grooves, and took them to the range again today. Same issue. Every single bullet failure to battery. This one is probably going into KTec.
 

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Discussion Starter #51
Claiming you have no feed issues does not help the many people that do.
George
 

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Well... RIP CP33 I guess. I deep cleaned the gun and magazines, loaded them, lubed the grooves, and took them to the range again today. Same issue. Every single bullet failure to battery. This one is probably going into KTec.
Isaac, have you tried different brands and types of ammo? We need to get your gun working for you. It's a fun gun and I'd like to see you getting the same smile on your face that I have when I use it.

I think it was Rem' Yellowjacket that was one of the ones that was horrible in mine. Old Thunderbolt also wouldn't feed for me but the new stuff is reported to feed 100%; but I don't have any to test it. I could go on and on and I didn't read the entire thread to see if you have tried different ammo. But typically, .22 firearms can be picky about what they digest. Since KT has produced a cutting edge gun I would expect it to be either more finicky or require something more from the user. If it was easy to make a .22 with 33 rounds held in a magazine totally contained within the grip everyone would be doing it. There's a reason there's only one manufacturer making one. But my point is that not all ammo will work in it.

I'm not going to ask if you eyeball the rounds loaded into the magazine. I'm thinking someone else asked that. Too, after loading I've been known to smack the back of a magazine on something hard. That's a complete no-no with the CP33. If the magazine looks good for rimlock after smacking it some will be rimlocked. There isn't much to a .22 rim and what is there is rounded over. It doesn't take much to get them to jump over each other.
 

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Thanks Mr. Buzzsaw, actually I do have my CP-33 up and running 100% No first-round or feeding problems of any kind. If I am correct about the reason for the problem, having the Overall Length measurements will go a long way in future ammo selection for myself and the forum readers. I noted in your measurements that the ones that worked were generally .965” and up. And, you are correct about Remington Golden Bullet .950”– 957” are the numbers for the RGB, they are useless in the CP-33. If you can get them to feed out of the magazine, they will bend like a banana trying to get into the chamber. Adding to the problem of the loose bullets they are too short for this gun and yet they are within SAAMI specs. Ramping the chamber did eliminate the banana problem and made feeding feel much smoother. I have not found any .22LR ammo manufacturer that lists the OAL as a printed specification. So, I would recommend, before purchasing any large quantities of ammo, check the OAL.

Regarding KelTec quality issues, that is a problem of their making that they need to clean up. It is now their reputation and I knew that going in. I just thought maybe, somehow, by luck or fantasy I would get a good one, but I was wrong. I have noted the first-round feed problem is found in almost every review and video I’ve encountered. While everyone made excuses for it, no one had a clue why it was happening. KelTec, if you can’t fix the problem then give purchasers a solid idea on how to mitigate the problem.

I also agree with your contention regarding quality control and engineering, it’s not just KelTec, I can’t think of one gun I have purchased that didn’t require some kind of repair, adjustment or modification to make it function correctly, yes Glocks included. Worst of all was the CMMG Banchee AR Style 22LR rifle. The supplied magazines were utter nonfunctioning crap, it would give 2 or 3 round bursts whenever it felt like it and displayed the same loading issues as the CP-33 right out of the box. Ramping the chamber solved that issue as well. I agree that some bad guns will get out of the factory undetected but the factory should at least know how to fix them! In the case of CMMG they didn’t have a clue what to do. I wasted more than a year and hundreds of rounds of ammo getting it to function as a gun!

And that’s my rant for today,

Subgunner 1
i was thinking of getting the 22lr banshee, guess I will reconsider
 

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I picked up a CP33 a few weeks ago, and like so many others, had the first round feed issue. There were others here who discussed smoothing the feed ramp around the 5 to 7 o'clock range to eliminate this issue. I found a simple way to address this myself with what I felt was the most "gentle" way to get results without overdoing it. I used this product--https://accusharp.com/product/030/ I used the pointed/narrower side of the tool to dull the abrupt transition on the ramp, at both the face of the breech in the 5-7 o'clock area, and at the point where the ramp levels off at the chamber (in areas where the bullet or case was originally hanging up on). The goal was not to extend or change the ramp angle, but create a smooth or dulled transition on feed angles already beveled. I want to emphasize very little edge was lightly removed, and this procedure should be done in stages (sliding by hand a 22lr round into chamber on a similar feed trajectory as you would see coming off the magazine) until a smooth feed is achieved.

First round feeding for me is no longer a problem.

If some people are able to do this with a dremel tool with good success, more power to them. The thought of using a power tool for such a fine adjustment just made me uncomfortable, and this knife sharpening tool for me easily did the trick. Disclaimer: this procedure should be performed by a qualified gunsmith.

With all of the troubles people are reporting about the first round feed issue, you would think KelTec would quickly address this issue on the production line, and save both customers and customer service a lot of headaches.

Regardless, so far I love this pistol.
 

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Discussion Starter #55 (Edited)
I picked up a CP33 a few weeks ago, and like so many others, had the first round feed issue. There were others here who discussed smoothing the feed ramp around the 5 to 7 o'clock range to eliminate this issue. I found a simple way to address this myself with what I felt was the most "gentle" way to get results without overdoing it. I used this product--https://accusharp.com/product/030/ I used the pointed/narrower side of the tool to dull the abrupt transition on the ramp, at both the face of the breech in the 5-7 o'clock area, and at the point where the ramp levels off at the chamber (in areas where the bullet or case was originally hanging up on). The goal was not to extend or change the ramp angle, but create a smooth or dulled transition on feed angles already beveled. I want to emphasize very little edge was lightly removed, and this procedure should be done in stages (sliding by hand a 22lr round into chamber on a similar feed trajectory as you would see coming off the magazine) until a smooth feed is achieved.

First round feeding for me is no longer a problem.

If some people are able to do this with a dremel tool with good success, more power to them. The thought of using a power tool for such a fine adjustment just made me uncomfortable, and this knife sharpening tool for me easily did the trick. Disclaimer: this procedure should be performed by a qualified gunsmith.

With all of the troubles people are reporting about the first round feed issue, you would think KelTec would quickly address this issue on the production line, and save both customers and customer service a lot of headaches.

Regardless, so far I love this pistol.
SB62 I agree, this is the correct course of action to help solve the problem. But, this is not necessarily the sole solution to the first round feed failure issue. Jamming on the sharp edge of the chamber can happen on any round. When the bottom edge of the chamber is sharp it can dig into the bullet and cause a stoppage. You will recognize this problem by a number of crescent shaped lead fragments on the table below your gun after you shoot a mag. The next problem is the front edge of the case can catch on the bottom chamber edge and stop the cycle or flip the round up and stop the cycle. The knife sharpener you are using is just a fine file. Its a good idea because it will allow you to work in small increments. You can monitor your progress by checking the fired cases. They will show a small bulge behind the rim indicating the size of the ramp you have cut into the chamber. Realize that the ramp is now an unsupported area of the chamber. If you go too far in your ramping you could cause the case to rupture on ignition. Although I think it is possible I have never actually seen it happen.
 

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Agreed subgunner, and thank you for starting this thread, as you probably addressed the single most important issue facing new CP33 owners. It would be great if someone more tech savvy then myself were to create a youtube video to illustrate what we are talking about. I am a visual learner, so I hope my explanation was sufficient for most people to understand that both the front and back side (angle transition points) of the ramp (only) were polished/dulled between the 5-7 o'clock position.
 

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Discussion Starter #57 (Edited)
Agreed subgunner, and thank you for starting this thread, as you probably addressed the single most important issue facing new CP33 owners. It would be great if someone more tech savvy then myself were to create a youtube video to illustrate what we are talking about. I am a visual learner, so I hope my explanation was sufficient for most people to understand that both the front and back side (angle transition points) of the ramp (only) were polished/dulled between the 5-7 o'clock position.
I hope this helps - its a fired case from my CP33 - note the ramp bulge.
 

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Discussion Starter #59
Interesting. Was this a result of removing just front and rear edge material from the ramp, or removing material from across the face of the ramp?
SB, I'm not sure I understand your question. The chamber from the factory really does not have a ramp. Its a minimal smoothing of the lower edge. I ramped the lower front of the chamber with a Dremel by eye as I have done this before on all of my .22's that had feeding issues. It is not a precise angle or amount. Just don't go crazy and cut far back into the chamber. The picture of my fired case should give you an idea of the dimensions.
 

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SB, I'm not sure I understand your question. The chamber from the factory really does not have a ramp. Its a minimal smoothing of the lower edge. I ramped the lower front of the chamber with a Dremel by eye as I have done this before on all of my .22's that had feeding issues. It is not a precise angle or amount. Just don't go crazy and cut far back into the chamber. The picture of my fired case should give you an idea of the dimensions.
There was a slight but distinctive taper already in my chamber which is what I described as the ramp. I did not deepen that taper, just a very slight dulling or edge removal on both ends of the taper. I get what you are saying nonetheless.

I will recover some of my brass next time I shoot and see how it compares to your casings. Thanks! Bill
 
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