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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hello, everyone!

This is my first post...so please be gentle... <grin>

Just bought a CP33 and set it up - a la "Demonstrated Concepts" (on YouTube) - as a cheek pistol. What a blast!

I'm gathering some chronograph info while testing ammo reliability, and thought I'd share my findings in case it benefits others on a similar quest... All ammo is for a 10-shot average using a Chrony at 10' from the muzzle; weather has been between 75° and 81° F, 70% to 82% RH and at 850' MSL. Reliability is measured by firing the remainder of the 50-round box from a 50-round magazine, rapid-fire, after velocities have been captured...

If you think this is helpful, I'll add other ammo types as I test them...

(and, yes - I'm aware of Kel-Tec's recommendation for "high velocity" ammunition with a bullet weight of "40 grains and up")

FYI, I've polished the feed ramp and installed the M*CARBO Mag Release, then cleaned and lubricated the firearm (using Strike Hold), prior to any rounds going thru it...and cleaned it after each ammo type.

AMMO...........................................AVG VELOCITY.....MUZZLE ENERGY.....EXTREME SPREAD......SUBJECTIVE RELIABILITY / COMMENTS

CCI Stinger 32gr CPHP........................1304 fps.................121 fpe........................49 fps.......................Zero FTFs / Zero FTEs; very reliable
Winchester Super-X HV 40gr CPHP....1010 fps..................91 fpe.........................298 fps (ouch!).........4 FTFs / 1 FTE in 18 rounds; crap ammo that I'll NEVER use again in a CP33
Aguila Super Extra HV 40gr CPHP......1102 fps..................108 fpe.......................60 fps........................1 FTF / Zero FTEs; reliable and less expensive than the others (FTF #48 of 50-rd string)
Aguila Interceptor 40gr Solid Point.......1205 fps.................129 fpe.......................26 fps........................Zero FTFs / Zero FTEs; very reliable; best numbers
Aguila Sniper Sub-Sonic 60gr LRN.......784 fps...................82 fpe........................10 fps........................Zero FTFs / Zero FTEs; surprisingly reliable but very low-powered

I'll be testing CCI Velocitor 40gr CPHP, CCI Clean HV 40gr RN, Eley Subsonic Hollow 38 gr, Aguila Super Maximum 30gr Solid Point, and Armscor 36gr HV HP next...

P.S. - It does seem to get finnicky (1st round FTFs) when it's not cleaned regularly! (when just plinking around)
 

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Great stuff
How about thunderbolt?
I have ordered that trung the maker cheek rest
It brings your favw back from ejection port amd gives a nice place to put your face.

The guy here talks a bit too much but you get the idea.


 

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Hello, everyone!

This is my first post...so please be gentle... <grin>

Just bought a CP33 and set it up - a la "Demonstrated Concepts" (on YouTube) - as a cheek pistol. What a blast!

I'm gathering some chronograph info while testing ammo reliability, and thought I'd share my findings in case it benefits others on a similar quest... All ammo is for a 10-shot average using a Chrony at 10' from the muzzle; weather has been between 75° and 81° F, 70% to 82% RH and at 850' MSL. Reliability is measured by firing the remainder of the 50-round box from a 50-round magazine, rapid-fire, after velocities have been captured...

If you think this is helpful, I'll add other ammo types as I test them...

(and, yes - I'm aware of Kel-Tec's recommendation for "high velocity" ammunition with a bullet weight of "40 grains and up")

FYI, I've polished the feed ramp and installed the M*CARBO Mag Release, then cleaned and lubricated the firearm (using Strike Hold), prior to any rounds going thru it...and cleaned it after each ammo type.

AMMO...........................................AVG VELOCITY.....MUZZLE ENERGY.....EXTREME SPREAD......SUBJECTIVE RELIABILITY / COMMENTS

CCI Stinger 32gr CPHP........................1304 fps.................121 fpe........................49 fps.......................Zero FTFs / Zero FTEs; very reliable
Winchester Super-X HV 40gr CPHP....1010 fps..................91 fpe.........................298 fps (ouch!).........4 FTFs / 1 FTE in 18 rounds; crap ammo that I'll NEVER use again in a CP33
Aguila Super Extra HV 40gr CPHP......1102 fps..................108 fpe.......................60 fps........................1 FTF / Zero FTEs; reliable and less expensive than the others (FTF #48 of 50-rd string)
Aguila Interceptor 40gr Solid Point.......1205 fps.................129 fpe.......................26 fps........................Zero FTFs / Zero FTEs; very reliable; best numbers
Aguila Sniper Sub-Sonic 60gr LRN.......784 fps...................82 fpe........................10 fps........................Zero FTFs / Zero FTEs; surprisingly reliable but very low-powered

I'll be testing CCI Velocitor 40gr CPHP, CCI Clean HV 40gr RN, Eley Subsonic Hollow 38 gr, Aguila Super Maximum 30gr Solid Point, and Armscor 36gr HV HP next...

P.S. - It does seem to get finnicky (1st round FTFs) when it's not cleaned regularly! (when just plinking around)
New member here too, that's great info and thanks for sharing that. My request is for CCI Standard Velocity. I run CCI and Aquila SV as well as Blazer pretty much 100% of the time and never have an issue. I've always found it interesting that Kel Tec recommends HV ammo.

I have two CP33s and both develop a carbon ring in the chamber, especially when they're new. When that ring builds up I get FTF occasionally, suspecting that the carbon ring prevents the rounds from fully chambering. When they're clean I don't get those failures at all.

One of my CP33s has approximately 15,000 rounds through it and it developed that ring badly when it was new, but over time it doesn't really develop the ring anymore. My newer CP33 has maybe 2000 rounds on it and still needs aggressive brushing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for the replies, Silverback and Hobie! Glad the info provided may be of help...and thanks for sharing the info on the cheek rest and the carbon ring phenomenon... (never heard of that before) I'm chronographing the ammo I have on-hand but, if able, I'll see if Thunderbolt and CCI SV are available at my LGS (local gun store). Of course, I'm not independently wealthy and cannot field multiple requests for all the different kinds of .22LR ammo available and being used out there...it can get pricey if I get 40 requests for ammo at ~$10 per box!!

Really looking forward to getting Velocitor tested (being delivered next week), as I think it may be my go-to ammo (from all the good things I've heard about it)...but the Aguila Super Extra HV (there is a Super Extra SV that looks similar) is doing quite well, so far...and is half the price of the others. Luckily, I have 4K rounds of Aguila Interceptor HV 40gr Solid Point laying around -- and it was the best so far! I talked with Rhett Neumayer about zero distances, hence my idea of getting some reliable ballistic data from which to build a table and see what the optimal zero distance might be... (Rhett recommends 25 yards or 50 yards, based on requirements.)

Thanks again...and look for more posts as I do more testing!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Folks,

I finally got to the range this morning -- boy, was it hot and humid! -- and was able to complete my CP33 ammo ballistics review.

Some comments: Winchester Super-X HV had the worst extreme spread (max fps to min fps) and jammed the worst of all. Thunderbolt was inexpensive and functioned well, but it's standard velocity, with the lowest energy, but the dirtiest ammo tested. CCI Standard Velocity had the lowest SD and ES of all...

Hope it provides some data that folks may be looking for...and my apologies for the inability to center and "clean up" the posted chart.

(86 deg F; 80% RH; 850' MSL; calm winds)

P.S. - I don't plan on testing any other ammo types... :)

CP33-FIRED ROUND

CPHP/RN = Copper-Plated Hollow Point or Round Nose
AVERAGE
VELOCITY
(FPS)
STANDARD
DEVIATION
(FPS)
EXTREME SPREAD
(FPS)
AVERAGE ENERGY
(FPE)
Aguila Interceptor 40 gr Solid Point12462475138
Aguila Super Extra - High Velocity 40 gr CPHP11021760108
Aguila Super Maximum 30 gr122862229101
CCI Clean 40 gr RN10642675101
CCI Mini-Mag 40 gr CPRN10761763103
CCI Standard Velocity983144386
CCI Stinger 32 gr CPHP12972675120
CCI Velocitor 40 gr Round Nose11153169110
Federal Punch 29 gr Flat Nose13441961116
Remington Thunderbolt 40 gr LRN9345415878
Winchester Super-X - High Vel. 40 gr CPHP101011529891
 

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Thanks for that info. I'm a bit surprised that CCI Standard is that low. But not surprised the SD and ES are that good, certainly follows what I see on the range.

As a note, I just tested some of the Norma TAC22 ammo. Cleanest ammo I've seen so far with a very slick lube, though granted I'm shooting in 90 degree weather right now. But it doesn't group as well as CCI SV, so I would expect to see higher SD. It's also listed as 1100 MV, but with sun direction coming from high right, I can see most of these bullets in flight, which really surprises me.

For Rimfire Challenge shooting and at a somewhat lower cost than CCI SV or Blazer, it's going to be my new go-to round. With limited testing so far, 100% feed, fire and eject.
 

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This is great news for me. Thunderbolts are the one bulk ammo that functions perfectly in my two cp33s. The barrel length of the cp33 and smaller barrels dont burn the powder effeciently enough to achieve advertised velocities. Look at your much higher velocity rounds stinger, velocitor etc. They loose several hundred feet in this barrel. Now the punch has a much faster burning power so it does produce advertised velocities and even more out of a longer barrel.

Now my quandary is which supressor to buy that produces the least Db at the shooters ear.
I have been think about the oss rad22 to keep back preasure and fouling low. Especially with the p17.

I have had 3 FTF in 150 rounds of punch. It was all ammo related as i tried to move bullet around to strike in fresh primer arear then move the bullet to revolver and no go.

Really disappointed as it is advertised as a seld defense ammo. That type of failure rate is to high for me. It will be relegated my lcr.

Great work thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks for that info. I'm a bit surprised that CCI Standard is that low. But not surprised the SD and ES are that good, certainly follows what I see on the range.

As a note, I just tested some of the Norma TAC22 ammo. Cleanest ammo I've seen so far with a very slick lube, though granted I'm shooting in 90 degree weather right now. But it doesn't group as well as CCI SV, so I would expect to see higher SD. It's also listed as 1100 MV, but with sun direction coming from high right, I can see most of these bullets in flight, which really surprises me.

For Rimfire Challenge shooting and at a somewhat lower cost than CCI SV or Blazer, it's going to be my new go-to round. With limited testing so far, 100% feed, fire and eject.
My CP33's bolt catch sheared in half earlier today, so I'll not be doing any shooting until next week when, hopefully, I'll receive a replacement part and install it...

I'll see if I can find some Norma TAC22 and give it a try...but I never liked "coated" .22s... <grin>
 

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Thats unfortunate. As much as i hate it i am sending one of mine in. The slide stop button popped off. In the process it must have mis aligned or damaged the part it interphases with. I was avle to get new button but the slide stop eill not funtion properly. Also my bolt recoil spring washer broke. The only way they say to repair is to press a new one on. Not sure but it seems like they should just make a grove so a small Eclip would retain recoil spring. Or thread the end and use a small nut with loctite.

Anyway this one needs to go home to get a tune up.

Sending in next couple of weeks.

Hope yours gets taken care of soon.
 

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Normally i would too. I just finished putting a new slide stop in my p17. This one seems like something else to is wrong as well . There is a ton of lateral movement on the part that the cp33 slide stop interphases with. Plus with the bolt needing repair i figured i will have them fix this while thier at it.
 

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While I have not chronograph the CCI AR Tactical ammo. It does work well in my CP33 and is quite accurate. The AR Tactical is nothing but MiniMags with the CCI standard bullet shape and copper washed. I definitely have less issues with the first round feeding when I use CCI Standard or AR Tactical due to the bullet shape. I just don't care for shooting uncoated 22lr ammo in my pistols so stick with the AR Tactical. In all of my semi-auto pistols and AR22s, the Aquila Super Extra comes in right behind CCI ammo for reliability and accuracy.
 

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The AR Tactical is nothing but MiniMags with the CCI standard bullet shape and copper washed.
I turned down buying a box of these because for the first little bit of ownership i was under the impression that the cp-33 couldn't shoot high velocity ammo because the only ammo that would feed reliably was standard velocity cci, subsonic aguilla, and magtech bulk ammo. I've had the best luck yet so far with Magtech even though it's the dirtiest ammo i've ever shot.

Federal auto match, mini mags, golden bullet, and the pile of random Remington garbage that my grandpa gave me all were failing to feed every shot and those are all over 1200 fps so I kind of assumed it was the velocity, but after perusing this forum the bullet shape and magazine height makes a lot more sense.
 

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And the majority of what I shoot in mine is Fed; auto match, in competition, and no malfunctions.

Lots of folks swear by Thunderbolt. I swear at them. But mine are 15(?) years old. I think the ammo specs change over time and what works today might not tomorrow.
 

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Lots of folks swear by Thunderbolt. I swear at them.
I am one that swears at both Thunderduds and Federal Auto-Match. Last time I bought Auto-Match back in 2016, it wouldn't even function in my Marlin Model 60 or Ruger 10/22. It even made my Ruger MkII choke. I ended up shooting it in my 22lr revolvers only.

..... but after perusing this forum the bullet shape and magazine height makes a lot more sense.
Yes bullet profile can and will make a difference. The CCI AR Tactical will feed reliably were CCI Mini Mags will sometimes jam in certain guns I own. And I can't stress enough about making sure to not only load the magazines correctly, but also making sure the top round is sitting correctly too.
 

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All my thunder bolt ammo is from the last several years. 15 year old thunderbolt may be the issue.

I just went out to range today to do more funtion and reliability ammo testing.

When doing reliability testing i go through 300 rounds rapid fire. This means 300 rounds out of the gun one mag after another non stop. I have 6 x 50 round mags at the ready.

The mags that had a mix of Winchester x and triple x, federal lrn 40 grain, remington gold bulk pack jammed repeatedly. Nose up failure to feed and double feeds.

300 rounds of thunderbolts 100 % except for a couple failure to fire. After dropping mag and reinserting the round they went off.

I have to do the same test with the cci mini mags. That will come next week.

Again i have the mcarbo mag release upgrade only.

When loading with the American speed loader the rounds should go in rather easy. If you feel alot of resistance or like you have to press hard then the rounds are probably experiencing rim lock. I unload anywhere from 5 to 8 rounds and begin again. You will get the hang of it. Of course as you get within ten rounds of max you may need to use a bit more force but not much.

I am finding that a well cleaned gun and mags aids in reliability. This comes from not cleaning the mags or gun at regular intervals and experiencing horrible feeding and reliability issues. I think a good barometer is clean gun every 500 rounds and mags at least every 1000 rounds.

This practice has made a huge difference.

I can get away with many more rounds before cleaning my 1022 butler creek or oem ruger mags. I do need to clean the 1022 about the same or at the very least every 1000 rounds to maintain reliable feeding. The 1022 seems less ammo sensitive. But do function much more reliable with the thunderbolt ammo.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
All ammo types on one chart:

(with my subjective rankings for self-defense / accuracy / reliability)

CP33-FIRED ROUNDOVER-
ALL
RANK
AVERAGE
VELOCITY
(FPS)
STANDARD
DEVIATION
(FPS)
EXTREME
SPREAD
(FPS)
MUZZLE
ENERGY
(FPE)
Aguila Interceptor 40 gr CPRN 112462475138
CCI Stinger 32 gr CPHP212972675120
Federal Punch 29 gr Nickel-Plated Flat Nose313441961116
Aguila Super Extra - High Velocity 40 gr CPRN411121856110
CCI Velocitor 40 gr CPRN511153169110
CCI Mini-Mag 40 gr CPRN610761763103
CCI Clean 40 gr RN710642675101
CCI Standard Velocity8983144386
Aguila Super Extra - Std. Velocity 40 gr Lead RN9961165382
Armscor 36 gr High Velocity Hollow Point1010343111295
Eley 38 gr Subsonic Hollow Point11819175860
Norma TAC-22 40 gr Target Velocity Lead RN12913226574
Aguila Sniper Subsonic 60 gr Lead RN13780205654
Remington Thunderbolt 40 gr LRN149345415878
Aguila Super Maximum 30 gr 15122862229101
Winchester Super-X - High Vel. 40 gr CPHP16101011529891


85° F. / 82% RH / 850' MSL / 30.2" Hg

Again, the Thunderbolts were the dirtiest, but functioned well. The Winchester Super-Xs were horrible, with lots of FTFs and FTEs as well as the worst Extreme Spread. The Aguila Sniper Subsonic had a few FTFs, but the Eley Subsonic Hollow didn't miss a beat...just like all the others...

Hope it helps!!
 
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