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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I got two boxes of the DPX yesterday. I haven't had a change to shoot them yet but they look alot differnt than any other .380 hollow point I have seen. The hollow portion of the bullet is extremly wide compared to the Remingfton hollow point I have been target shooting with.

I do plan on shooting a FEW while target shooting but not many. With tax added I payed $54.17 for two boxes. That comes out to $1.35 a bullet!!! I know could have probably got them cheaper some other place but I didn't have to pay shipping and I pass the gun shop I bought them from almost everyday so it not out of my way at all.

BTW, I know this has been discussed a thousands times and I know the bullet expands well and retains it weight but, what kind of penetraion can I expect if I ever had to use the DPX on a BG.
 

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  If you shoot the BG in a part of him that is soft as ballistic jello, ( Where that is I don't know. ) you would get about 10 inches of penetration. Maybe if he has 10 inches of belly fat, that's as far as the bullet will go.

  If you hit bone or muscle, obviously that is tougher than jello. I think the DPX is the best performing hollow point round. And they ARE very accurate. I will still carry it in my 9mm and up pistols, where they reliably exceed 12 inches of jello, while making quarter sized holes.

  But I am a recent convert to wanting deeper penetration and I think I'm going to carry only AE FMJ in .380 for their consistent 16 inch penetration.

  You might actually be better off with the accurate UMC! It does not expand from P3, so it can reach 14 inches in jello.

Packer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
know this is kinda an on going thing in this forum but I would have to say I disagree with you. Although no one can argue the fact that FMJ will penetrate further than a HP the FMJ is just not going to make a significant entry or exit wound or for that matter it isn't going to make much of a hole in a BG any way you cut it. I do see your point about wanting enough penetraion to reach vitals Vital organs are a relatively small target which you may or may not hit. Thanks for the input but I still believe a hollow point is better if you look at the big picture. I still beleive the DPX bullet could reach vitals if you are within the range the KT. 380 is designed for.

And to address the whole issue about a hollow point losing excessive energy due to shooting through a BG's fat. Most of the fat a BG is going to have is going to be in the abdominal region (Stomach) and this is a place you shouldn't be aimimng anyways, and think about it if you do hit the BG in the abdominal region where we have established most of the fat layers are going to be there are really not vitals in that area other than the back bone and if you aim at the chest region with the DPX or other types of hollwpoints the backbone can be reach if you hit that area as well.

Does anyone have any more specfic data on DPX Gelatin test.
 

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That's fine, and I used to feel just as you do. Now i just don't trust the weak .380 with JHP! I' will carry 9mm when I can.

At least, if hit in COM, I know the FMJ bullet will go deep enough to cause damage. A surface wound is not likely to stop a determined BG.

Good luck!

Packer.
 

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Links to .380 Caliber Ammunition Tests.
(Some links may require user registration.)
=========================================

OG & Friend's Ballistic Test Results
http://www.ktrange.com/articles/a10/a10.html

2d Gen P-3AT Analysis Part 2 (includes wet pack test)
http://www.ktrange.com/phpbb2/viewt...next&sid=4935fcafa65b7bfa384953776a49d0df

The Last Crusade - .380 Wet Pack Test
http://www.ktrange.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=4791&view=next

mouseguns.com - Ammunition and Ballistics
http://www.mouseguns.com/amball.htm
Scroll down to the .380 section.

The Box O' Truth #26 - Little Guns vs. The Box O' Truth
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot26.htm

Ballistic gelatin testing results : .32NAA 90 grain Sierra JHC
http://www.thehighroad.org./showthread.php?t=199435&goto=nextnewest

DPX/Gold Dot Raccoon test.
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=104;action=display;num=1148245402;start=

Head-to-head test: DPX vs. Ranger-T
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=104;action=display;num=1149377730;start=

MONSTER WET NEWS MULTI-GUN-TEST
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=104;action=display;num=1148670025;start=

P3AT CHEAP JHP WETPACK TEST
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=104;action=display;num=1166124717;start=

Smilies and Wet Newspaper Test
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=104;action=display;num=1116435642;start=

Wet Newspaper Test: Corbon DPX .380 HP
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=104;action=display;num=1147392682;start=

Wet Newspaper Test: Santa Barbara 87g.
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=104;action=display;num=1123002383;start=

Wetpack Test: DPX, GD, GS, Ranger-T, etc.
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=104;action=display;num=1158344941;start=

WINTER/SUMMER WETPACK TEST DONE
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=104;action=display;num=1158537757;start=

Wetpack test with a NAA Guardian 380 pistol, 2.5" barrel.
http://www.ktrange.com/phpbb2/viewt...next&sid=29288dc77d5ef27334713759e42546ac

Fly&Og Revisit DPX with GS, GD, and more!!
http://www.ktrange.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=5320&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

More Smiley Tests with a 1G P3AT
http://www.ktrange.com/phpbb2/viewt...p;postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

THE FLY AND OG .380 DPX WETPACK TEST WITH 4 PISTOLS!!
http://www.ktrange.com/phpbb2/viewt...p;postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

Cor Bon .380 DPX "Wet Pack" test with LWS380
http://www.seecamp.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1148012398/0

Cartridge Performance: .380 ACP
http://www.geocities.com/bersa_thunder/cartridges.html?20054

Selecting a .380 Cartridge
http://www.geocities.com/bersa_thunder/cartridges2.html?20054

Bersa Thunder .380 with Cor-Bon 80-gr. DPX Ammunition
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Bersa Thunder.htm

Brassfetcher .380 ACP Tests
http://www.brassfetcher.com/380ACP.html

Corbon .380 70 gr PowRBall
http://www.stoppingpower.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10020

Corbon .380 80 gr DPX
http://www.stoppingpower.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10021

.380 ACP at StevesPages
http://stevespages.com/page8f380acp.html

Preliminary .380 wet pack report for your amusement
http://www.ktrange.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=232

Gel test today!
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=104;action=display;num=1167146283;start=
 
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dpx, heep good stuff, might not penetrate as much as a fmj but when it stops the damage is massive compared to a fmj. Most hp don't react like the dpx round. so one has to be careful when he is talking about hp rounds. all are different, but the dpx gives 100% expansion and retains 100% of its total weight. Each to his own, thats why those gun shops shelves have so many damn kinds of 380 ammo for sale....
 

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Thoughtful thread and related to the Gold Dot one of a few days ago.

Ballistic gelatin is 90% Water and 10% Other and in theory supposed to provide a standard calibration for penetration and expansion and other behaviours of ammunition in a medium roughly representing the human body (YMMV, of course).  Vague Inet posts elsewhere suggest there is a decent penetration-expansion relationship between Gelatin and gunshot corpses.

Packer's post related to comparitive body part densities caused me to google that kind of info.  Overall the average adult male is about 60% water.  Fat folks have a smaller percentage water and float so they must be less physically dense.  Lungs average about 90% water, the brain 70%, bones 22%, muscle 75%  etc.

IF a guy's body averages 40% Other and gelatin is 10% Other AND IF the gelatin-corpse ballistic relationship info is correct  THEN ..... what?

 Gelatin might represent a reasonable composite-average of densities/resistance of various body substances ... fat, muscle, organs, possibly bones too but doubtful.  

The truth is out there but I don't even know the question anymore....meanwhile cuz I'm not worried will carry  gold dots and ... maybe American Eagle solids without any concern....til my mind changes again.  AE is cool because it is my primary practice ammo.

Edit -- Shots to the stomach. My personal experience in four actual gun defense situations (no shots and I am old) is that due to close in virtual surprise attacks the first quick shot might be expected to be from 1/2 Hip or low retention into the stomach area, and the next couple into the stomach to chest and even head with 1/2 hip to 3/4 hip. This is sometimes called a 'zipper" and with some practice 3 shots (stomach, chest, head) can be accomplished in about 1.5 sec from the alert with a 3 oclock holster. Similar to the speed rock without the rock but with Elbow Up, Elbow Down mechanics.
 

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riverkeeper said:
Lungs average about 90% water,
I have to disagree.
If you've ever done much hunting and dressing of game, you would say lungs probably average more like 90% air. (Human = about 6 liters total in fact.)

The other 10% is actual tissue, and may in fact be 90% water (blood).

However, they are certainly not nearly as dense as Ballistic Gel, or heavy muscle tissue such as the thigh, and are only protected by a thin layer of skin, muscle, and ribs.

There is no doubt in my mind that any decent .380 JHP will penetrate the chest wall and  the lungs and / or liver with a frontial shot, or six or seven.


rcmodel
 

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rcmodel said:
I have to disagree.
If you've ever done much hunting and dressing of game, you would say lungs probably average more like 90% air. (About 6 liters total in fact.)

The other 10% is actual tissue, and may in fact be 90% water (blood).

However, they are certainly not nearly as dense as Ballistic Gel, or heavy muscle tissue such as the thigh, and are only protected by a thin layer of skin, muscle, and ribs.

There is no doubt in my mind that any decent .380 JHP will penetrate the chest wall and  the lungs and / or liver with a frontial shot, or six or seven.
  Yeah! If he doesn't turn sideways or have an arm in the way, and IF the bullet doesn't hit a rib, and IF there is only ONE BG to empty your mag into--You MIGHT get his lung.

  Getting shot dead by a wheezing BG is pretty much the same as getting shot dead by a healthy one.

Packer.
 

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ned69 said:
I think I've figured it out.  Packer, is KT giving you commissions for every P3 owner that decided they need a 9 mllimeter to replace their 380?  ;)
Nope! NOTHING is small enough to replace the 3AT. But 9mm is a much more powerful round. On days when all I HAVE is the P3, I just want a fighting chance!

Packer.
 

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I respect Packer's point of view but I agree with rcmodel.

While it is true that an arm might get in the way of a bullet or the BG might be very fat (though usually fat guys are very kind and gentle and never cause trouble) these things are not very important IMO.  One has to remember that if the first hit does not cause the BG to stop fighting due to the psychological shock of being wounded, the only sure way to stop him is through massive trauma to vital organs.

For these very tough BGs who continue to fight after being wounded, the wounds to the vitals must be massive enough to shut down their bodies  quickly or they may still be able to kill you.  The difference in amount of damage to the heart between a HP and FMJ bullet for example may just be the difference between the BG being immediately disabled and being able to wound you fatally.

There is no certainty how a fight will go.  There may be instances where Packers FMJ will give superior results. There will be others where the massive trauma of rcmodel's JHPs will be more effective.  You make your choice and you bet your life.  In any life or death fight the element of chance is very important.  Based on what I know I use Corbon DPX in my autopistols and I try very hard to avoid any situation where I have to fight.
 
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if we all took the word "if" out of our vocabulary, we would have nothing to argue about. To many what if's, and you can't carry a 50 cal with you all the time. we have even acknowledged that it is even hard to carry the small 9's all of the time but we all know we can carry the 380 all the time Is it the ultimate protection peace, no, is the 9 the ultimate protection peace, no. what "if" u had neither, oh damn there I go again with the "if". ::)



jocko, who has to agree with RC on this one ;D
 

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the 380 I have because it fits in my pocket while wearing shorts is better than the pm-9 I have at home because I did not want to print while wearing the shorts.

fwiw. gotta agree with rc, if the 7 shots don't do it, it got me enough time to get away.
 
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