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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I taught another Ohio CHL (concealed carry) class this weekend. At the end of class I have a segment on joining pro-firearms advocacy group. I have always advocated for the NRA as one of the best bang-for-the-buck, if for no other reason then because of their breadth and influence. This time I didn't. I told them, without much details, that until the NRA gets their act cleaned up maybe the students should consider one of the other advocacy groups such as Buckeye Firearms, The Second Amendment Foundation, or even JPFO. I told them that I'm keeping my membership up because I want the NRA to reform and, as a voting eligible member, I at least have that. But the students, on the other hand, might want to wait on the NRA and join something else for now.

Wayne LaPierre and his cronies have to go.

BTW, I have now heard of at least three different organizations which have sprung up since the debacle at the last NRA Annual Meeting with the specific aim of forcing LaPierre & cronies out and reforming the NRA to be what it is supposed, NEEDS, to be. One of them is aimed at big doners and what if I heard is even half right is going to cost the NRA millions of lost donations. Another one is Save The Second ( http://www.savethe2a.org/ ), spearheadded by well known firearms trainer Rob Pincus and Jeff Knox, the son of Neal Knox the engineer of the famous Cincinatti Revolt which is credited for changing the direction of the NRA in 1977. This is the one which I am supporting and which I think is the best vehicle for the average NRA member to affect change.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

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Kirk- appreciate you sharing your view of the current situation. I'm a life Member of SAF and CCRKBA. Will give savethe2a a good look, sounds promising.
 

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Conservatives won’t stick together, they will throw each other under the bus with out even looking at the big picture. Mindless liberals will follow the leader over the edge of the cliff with no thought of the consequences.
 

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I got lifetime a lifetime ago, but I won't give them any more.
Here is my NRA craplist from the last 20 years or so.
- WLP throws amendment 1 under the bus to blame video games (art, free speech, whatever) for mass shootings. BS. A LOWER % of gamers have done mass shootings than gun owners -- there literally 10, maybe 20 times as many gamers as shooters, and the majority of gamers have played the violent stuff.

-Targeting old people. The NRA scams its older members with panic laden propaganda begging for money, and it never ends. I have gotten this crap since the mid 80s and it never ends, but I now recognize its targeted toward people whos minds are not fully in the game anymore.

- Paid too much. The top tier make too much from our donations. There are about 5 million ******** who could do a better job than WLP and who would do it if not for free, for a living wage (like, 60k a year instead of 3-4 million). Its not rocket science... you tell the congressmen that if they want your backing and good graces, they need to vote against the crap. A monkey can do it. Make a few examples of people that vote for things like banning silencers or bump fire weapons, give them all C or lower ratings and upvote their primary opponents to As.

- Refusal to fight for our rights. Too many to list.

- General shady behaviors. About 1/3 of the ads in their propaganda mags (free with lifetime, but not worth the paper printed on usually) are downright scams and worse. A well known company that busts up antique guns and renumbers and makes forgaries is always in there selling brand new shiny mosins and mausers. Buy gold buy silver etc at inflated prices. Buy 'limited edition' mass produced guns at 2500 a pop. Its like an open market in a third world country in there. I was supposed to get a cheap POS bookbag and some other junk when I got lifetime, never saw it (and don't care, but how lame is that?).

- Annoying phone calls. With the same old panic send money now so WLP can have a bigger yacht.

And to top all that off I can't think of one thing they have fought for and won in a while. Did not pressure on fast and furious. Do not present the message well to non-gun people when on TV / news. Do not pressure RHINOS. All they are anymore is a black hole where money is sucked in and then it vanishes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Conservatives won’t stick together, they will throw each other under the bus with out even looking at the big picture. Mindless liberals will follow the leader over the edge of the cliff with no thought of the consequences.
Firearms and Self Defense rights are CIVIL RIGHTS, and any belief that they are a Liberal vs Conservative issue is artificially designed to be a "wedge issue."

The 2nd is for everyone and if a "Liberal" supports 2A rights then we have a point of commonality and if a "Conservative" wants to ban & restrict (and there are plenty who do) then he and I have problems.

So maybe we should let the discussion of "Libs" and "Conservatives" go for some other forum.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

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I believe I’m allowed to have an opinion, if you’re uncomfortable with my opinion then I respectfully request that you ad me to your ignore list.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I believe I’m allowed to have an opinion, if you’re uncomfortable with my opinion then I respectfully request that you ad me to your ignore list.
Not one about POLITICS here on this forum that strays too far from 2A specific. If you want your posts deleted and a slap from the Mods, go on.

It's not about whether or not your "opinion" is "comfortable." It's about following KTOG rules.
https://www.thektog.org/threads/read-before-posting-here.231044/
https://www.thektog.org/threads/the-counter-rules.242385/

So, yeah, you're "allowed to have an opinion." It's just that you have to find the right place to express it. For certain opinions, TheKTOG ain't it. You've been here since 2011. You should know this by now.
 
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I know you aren’t always right, and your opinion about the NRA is one of those times that you’re wrong. I’d just add you to my ignore list but more often than not I find your post interesting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I know you aren’t always right, and your opinion about the NRA is one of those times that you’re wrong. I’d just add you to my ignore list but more often than not I find your post interesting.
Which "point" is that? That the NRA has been engaging in practices which make it less effective as a 2A advocacy organization? That the NRA needs to clean house and Wayne & Cronies must go? That non-members might want to wait until such time before joining because the NRA is wasting their money and new members will be ineligible to vote and try to affect change with the NRA any way other than by bringing financial pressure by not joining? Or that I, and other voting eligible members, should probably continue to be members in order to apply what little pressure our vote has to affect positive change? Which one?
 

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Every one of Jonnin's points, I cannot disagree with a single one.
The main push in the smear is they are wasting donor's money on stuff like suits for Wayne's wardrobe, jet fuel for private aircraft, etc. This is what everybody is piling onto.
I personally expect those expenses since he has to appear on camera.
...And I'd prefer he did not look like this:rolleyes::


What we should probably look into is "who" is claiming that they (The NRA) is wasting donor money.
As long as I see anti-gunners with red faces and every sentence they speak is nothing but obscenity-NRA this, and obscenity-NRA that, I know the NRA is making a whale of a difference:fight:.
You have to think about 'who' wants members to abandon the NRA the most.
That's who we are following.
 

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I'm 74 yrs old and I've been a member of NRA since I was 18. Although I don't agree with the salaries these people make, they are the top driving force on protecting our 2nd. But, with paid expenses for travel etc. why does WLP need $100K+ per month for a salary????? That's an unreasonable amount of salary and I'd bet there are lot's of others that are just as qualified that would and could do the same job. Only thing is, WLP does have a recognized name and reputation for our 2A rights and he's hated by the left and does have big connections in politics with the right.
 

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... Only thing is, WLP does have a recognized name and reputation for our 2A rights and he's hated by the left and does have big connections in politics with the right.
If you were an anti-gun group, wouldn't this be target #1?


Here, have a little sniff of the other side to understand why they want us out of the NRA so bad: https://chris414blog.wordpress.com/
Yeah, that's who we're following.

If we drink the Kool-aid, we have only ourselves to blame:(.https://chris414blog.wordpress.com/
 

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I agree there needs to be changes made at the NRA. But , if people abandon the NRA it’s just going to empower anti 2A folks . I’m a life member of the NRA , and have been for more than 40 years . If the NRA goes away there is no other group with enough clout to hold the line on gun control.
 

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And I agree with all that too. The group still has clout and is still a target and all that. As I said, even I am a lifer. I get it. But I can't give them money right now, because they can't be trusted to use it wisely. If they are so @#$% broke, I can point them to a place to get 2 million / year in lieu of a donation.

of the things that tick me off, the $$ is the least of it.
Preying on the elderly really, really gets me going.
And attacking the video game industry is, to me, as wrong headed as attacking guns. Freedom first.
 

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I think members need to urge and support the NRA BOD in pushing for an independent audit. I don't think LaPierre or Ackerman McQueen have clean hands and both should be held accountable for the good of the group.

The liberals are happy about this, their boogie man is hurt and the most effective lobbying group in DC is in shambles during an election run up. The other pro gun groups are happy they can pick up easy money but they don't have the influence they pretend to.
 
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