[Stargazer40]

Shot a few rounds of this at the indoor range last night. No issues in feeding or cycling the P3AT. Went to this to try to gain some better expansion in a Micro Desert Eagle and wanted to try it in this lightweight little KelTec. It's quite snappy to shoot but not objectionable. Today I will chrono it at an outdoor range and see how the bullet expands in gel.

 

[Stargazer40]

Re: Buffalo Bore 95g JHP and P3AT - Brief Range RE

I am pretty happy with the BB results in the P3AT.  The box says 1125 fps and 267 ft-lbs ME (4" barrel I think).  Out of the P3AT's 2.75" barrel I got 1059 fps and 237 ft-lbs ME.  I gel tested the bullet in a Micro Desert Eagle with 2.25" ported barrel and achieved full expansion of the hollow point, 937 fps and 185 ft-lbs ME and 10" penetration.  This is amazing stuff.  I wouldn't want to shoot it all the time, but had no problems controlling the pistol.  I will probably continue to carry with Magtech Guardian Gold, because it achieves the goals I set for now.  Still want to play with some cloth, pork ribs and gel to see how both rounds work when challenged by more than gel.  

Liking this P3AT more and more!

 

[CJP32]

Re: Buffalo Bore 95g JHP and P3AT - Brief Range RE

Are they back to using Gold Dot bullets or are they still using a cheaper JHP?

If you have some of the expanded JHP's could you post a picture?

I've tried their ammo before and I have mixed feelings. I think the ammo is pretty good stuff, more so with the GD's. But their marketing is a fair amount of BS if you ask me. They claim to sell a +P 380acp which just dosen't exist, there is no standard for +P 380. I shot some of the 100g hardcast "+P" and someone asked me if it was a black powder load it was so smokey and dirty. The JHP load didn't seem nearly as bad for some reason.

CJ

 

[Stargazer40]

Re: Buffalo Bore 95g JHP and P3AT - Brief Range RE

Well, to be honest I was looking for something to make a 2.25" ported barrel in a Micro Desert Eagle be a worthwhile carry gun that provides adequate expansion in a hollow point.  The P3AT's 2.75" barrel and indeed the P3AT appears to shoot this stuff just fine (like everything else I feed it).  It doesn't appear to have the same expansion as the Magtech 85 gr JHP, indicating perhaps harder lead alloy.  Picture of three below.  The left is P3AT Magtech 85 gr JHP.  Center is Micro Desert Eagle Magtech and right is BB +P 95 gr JHP shot from Desert Eagle.

P3AT is about 120 fps faster so expansion should be similar.  Not sure who makes the bullets.

 

[tomdickandharry]

Re: Buffalo Bore 95g JHP and P3AT - Brief Range RE

My box of double tap with the 80 gr barnes bullet litss 1050fps and 196ftlb out of the p3at for comparason. I would love to test the ammo as I don't see any reports on this stuff, but I have absolutely no idea where I could shoot it or how to administer.

 

[Stargazer40]

Re: Buffalo Bore 95g JHP and P3AT - Brief Range RE

tomdickandharry - I had same kind of desire to test and bought F-1 Shooting Chrony for about $90.  Made my own ballistic gel from Knox and followed instruction provided on numerous websites.  Nice to have an outdoor range for shooting the gel and not worrying about chrony.  This has all been very instructive to me.  I don't hunt and have no real feel for the impact of these rounds.  Lot of variables and ammo manufacturers aren't totally forthcoming in how their numbers were arrived at.  My chrono may not be perfect and ME numbers are all just calculated.  I do think that relatively they are valid.  And my gel tests are consistent.  I make it so feel pretty good about how performance compares when bullets are dug out of the stuff.  The P3AT is nice little gun that is growing on me.  Certainly fits a growing list of desires in a carry weapon.  And the Buffalo Bore +P in this caliber anyway matches hype.

 

[rebootit]

Re: Buffalo Bore 95g JHP and P3AT - Brief Range RE

Here are a couple of pictures to compare BB and Hornady CD shot into a swimming pool to test nothing more than expansion out of the p3at. BB on the left. The BB separated from the jacket big time. Blew the wings apart. Bullet expanded a lot more but because it expanded so much I had to question if it would have penetrated as much as the Hornady round would. Hornady expanded all the way as well but stayed together. Shot into 9 feet of water about 10 feet away. Nothing scientific, just wanted to get an idea of expansion or lack of.

 

[rcmodel]

Re: Buffalo Bore 95g JHP and P3AT - Brief Range RE

Well one things for sure.

BB isn't using Speer Gold-Dot bullets.

They have a plated jacket and cannot seperate from the core.

I'd say the Hornady XTP won that round!

rc

 

[CJP32]

Re: Buffalo Bore 95g JHP and P3AT - Brief Range RE

RC if you look at Stargazer's picture in reply #3 the bullet on the far right is the BB. I may be wrong but that one looks like a Gold Dot to me. I'd be willing to bet that BB is still using some of the cheaper JHP's and there is some of the older stock with GDs around. I don't think I would trust buying their product unless I could make sure it was loaded with the GD. I'm not sure I would really trust BB as a company because of their marketing and the way they didn't let their customers know they quit using the GDs.

CJ

 

[rebootit]

Re: Buffalo Bore 95g JHP and P3AT - Brief Range RE

The bb I have in the photo was purchased in march. It is a non bonded bullet for sure. Massive size hole for the hp. Goes about 3/4 the length of the bullet.

 

[Stargazer40]

Re: Buffalo Bore 95g JHP and P3AT - Brief Range RE

Mine were shot into 11% gel. Not sure, if any, what how that would differ from water. This may be moot because BB now offers Barnes X bullets in theuir 27H loadings. These are the same all copper 80 gr HP that come in Corbon DPX load. Will try that one day.

Note that although BB designates their loadings a +P, it is a marketing term to different their max SAAMI loads against their more moderate .380 loads. .380 doesn't have +P SAAMI recognition. Also there is nothing in BB advertising mentioning GDHP as the bullets used so I don't fault them for that. I got my BB ammo from Midway. Hard to believe they would have NOS laying around.

 

[billjohnso20]

Re: Buffalo Bore 95g JHP and P3AT - Brief Range RE

Mine were shot into 11% gel.  Not sure, if any, what how that would differ from water.  This may be moot because BB now offers Barnes X bullets in theuir 27H loadings.  These are the same all copper 80 gr HP that come in Corbon DPX load.  Will try that one day.

Note that although BB designates their loadings a +P, it is a marketing term to different their max SAAMI loads against their more moderate .380 loads.  .380 doesn't have +P SAAMI recognition.  Also there is nothing in BB advertising mentioning GDHP as the bullets used so I don't fault them for that.  I got my BB ammo from Midway.  Hard to believe they would have NOS laying around.

I was curious about the +P designation on the .380 and several other calibers. So, I emailed the owner to find out what they mean by using a +P designation on calibers that SAAMI hasn't adopted an actual +P loading. I was told that in those cases, gthe company loaded the ammo to the maximum SAAMI load. They use the +P designation because, according to them, no one else loads those calibers to full SAAMI loads due to the variations between gun makers in regard to the strength of the guns in those calibers. That's why the owner said they will tell you on their website if the load they sell will work in particular guns or not work.

FWIW, I'm wanting to order some of their new 9x18 Mak loads. My CZ-82 was built to shoot the 9x18 Mak like the rest of the Soviet Block made 9's BUT, the Czechs went one better. S&B originally made a 9x18 round that would chamber in any Mak caliber gun even though it was designed for use only in the CZ-82. This now extinct round is gone forever. However, as a handloader, I've been able to raise the pressure of my own loads to the same level of performance safely. The problem is I refuse to carry my own loads for legal reasons. (No, I don't want to rehash the pro's and con's of carrying one's own loads for self-defense.) I think the BB ammo is a viable option to loading my own hot 9x18 loads.

I plan to order some of the 9x18 Mak loads but I'm trying to wait till they introduce the .327 Fed Mag loads that they keep saying they're going to start selling this year.

 

[rebootit]

Re: Buffalo Bore 95g JHP and P3AT - Brief Range RE

I don't hand load but even if I did or even if I made modifications to my gun my state (FL) would make it a non issue. Thankfully if you attack me or enter my home or car and I shoot you then you nor anyone else has the right to procecute me or sue me in civil court. Our self defense laws take that away from the perp.

 

[jonnin]

Re: Buffalo Bore 95g JHP and P3AT - Brief Range RE

I like the BB ammo. That said, I also like the critical defense ammo. Here is my take on it:

BB has much, much more energy (depending on caliber and type, you get either more velocity or a bigger slug).

Hornady expands but its energy is much lower. In some calibers, I am ok with this, but in 380 and makarov, I really question how much penetration the low velocity ammo will have behind an expanded hollow point.

My preferred load is to just mix the BB ammos in my 380 (sig), altertating hollow points and ball. In more powerful rounds, 9mm and up, I use critical defense which I trust to both expand and penetrate in the more potent loads.

I do not have access to a range that allows trash/etc, so all that is just based off other folk's work combined with the stated potency of the ammos from both their own and other's web sites. So, really, I am just sharing the conclusions I reached from reading all the tests done by everyone else... again, for whatever that is worth.