Haas anyone tried this ammo? If so how was the recoil, and accuracy?
They are not generic terms. They have very specific quantified meanings in terms of pressure beyond what is rated as standard pressure for that round, by the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manfufactures Institute (SAAMI). Obviously, the terms are not copyrighted or BB could not put that on their standard pressure ammo. And BB did not invent this ploy. It has been done before and it did not go unnoticed by the gun community.tomwalshco said:In my mind the terms +p or +p+ are just generic industry terms meaning the round is loaded at a higher pressure = higher velocity. I don't believe these are copyrighted terms or somebody would be suing somebody.
Nothing can much make anyone immune from lawsuits. However, SAAMI standards are used industry wide. If you exceeded them, you could certainly more easily be painted as negligent and would surely be more vulnerable in terms of liability.tomwalshco said:Don't believe adherence to SAAMI standards makes anyone immune from lawsuits.
I'd disagree. Most veteren shooters know the meaning of the terms +P and +P+, and they know that the lack of those indicators should mean that a round is loaded at or below the SAAMI rating for standard pressure. Deceptively using the designation of +P certainly appears to be trying to put something over people.tomwalshco said:BB is just a small company in Idaho, doing business by filling niche needs in the industry. I'm sure they're not trying to put anything over on anybody...
I'm the one who talked to the BB owner via email. I agree with Dale that they should not use the +P and +P+ like they do. Only a few calibers have approved SAAMI +P and +P+ ratings. Those designations mean something in the gun community. Using them on ammo that isn't actually loaded above the standard SAAMI ratings IS MISLEADING for anyone who is new to guns and ammo.TxCajun said:[highlight]A member here recently talked with someone at Buffalo Bore and they admitted that their rounds were in fact loaded right up to SAAMI standard pressure level. His excuse for the inaccurate depiction of their ammo's rating was that many makers load rounds under standard pressure, so they use the +P designation to show that their rounds are higher in pressure than those others.[/highlight] IMHO, that is just a marketing ploy and frankly a lie designed to sell their ammo. A lot of gun folks know what +P means (over standard pressure). They don't, however, know that some rounds like 380 and 40 cal are not available in +P designations. That is, they are already considered high pressure rounds at the standard load. Again, IMO, BB is taking advantage of some people's incomplete knowlege. I'd prefer they use some other designation rather than mislead the buying public. Why not call it a maximum pressure load, max power, or some other designation that is actually true.
Yeah, if you're seeing signs of stress then these rounds are loaded heavy. I reload to cut costs so I can afford to go to the range. If I do ever buy any BB, I'll look the empties over with a jeweler's loupe for signs of stress. I doubt I would ever try to reload BB empties.Stargazer40 said:Well, personally I don't care what they call it. It is nice that you verified they do not load above max SAAMI. One of the things the SAAMI specs manual does is explain about standard deviation in their measurements. I would imagine that BB takes great care to insure that their SD measurements are quite narrow. To load to the max within a commercial environment means that some are always higher and some always lower. I did see some ballooning of the primers around the indentation on my BB rounds (which I believe is a high pressure indicator in autos compared to primer flattening in revolvers) but it was relatively minor.
You make a very good point. I don't plan on reloading .380 anytime soon and will shoot a little ball ammo to stay proficient. The BB will get shot infrequently and I'll toss all the Starline brass (at least I think that's what BB uses (*---* on the case rim)).billjohnso20 said:... I doubt I would ever try to reload BB empties.
Certainly there is the possibilty that it could use a little stiffer spring or a recoil buffer of sorts. I don't think the frame is all that thick at a number of places and I remain surprised by the strength of the Xytel (?) material used. Aside from the frame crack how did the front of the slide look at the groove stops where it hits the metal insert in the frame (if it does)?bh153dc said:Here's what happened to me. About 6 months ago my grip cracked right on the right rear frame pin. Now I can't say for 100% assurability that it was caused by using BB ammo. But I had bought their hot .380 round a month before and ran about 20 rounds through it. I had about 2000 rds through it already of WWB/Cor-bon. I would not recommend using this hot load in your little P3AT........ I now carry Hornady CD. Just my $.02