[reboot49015]

Greetings all,

I've only had my KSG for 2 years, bought new and have only had approximately 200 rounds through it. It has been cleaned, oiled and stored correctly after every outing. I took it apart today for yearly cleaning and found rust on the bolt. As you can see, the rust is on the side of the bolt where the finish (paint?) has worn off and there is no friction. The rest of the finish on the bolt looks just as bad. What kind of finish does Kel Tec use on the KSG bolt that flakes off and doesn't protect from rust?

I submitted a ticket to Kel Tec and wonder how long they take to respond.

Has anyone else had/seen this problem?

Thanks all.

 

[CharlieB]

The finish is Parkerizing. It (Parkerizing) can rust in hours in the wrong envonment.

Did ya sweat all over it? Anything salty at all? Or... one of the highly ammonia laiden cleaners?

Not saying "that's it" but in the old days, when potassium chlorate was the priming mixture of choice, it left salt in the bores, and chamber, and breech face (potassium chloride). The certain fix, to prevent after rusting, was washing the bore in hot water, something riflemen were not too keen on. But it was a sure and complete fix to "after rusting", which was caused by salt interacting with the moisture held by, and passing through the oils used to "preserve" the bore. The oils seldom worked.

So.... just puttin' that out there for general thought.

 

[reboot49015]

Negative to sweat, salts or ammonia cleaners. I've only used Remington spray and Hoppe's #9 for cleaning and Ballistol for lubrication. Ammo has been all from Walmart, nothing exotic like combloc surplus corrosive ammo.

You can see 3 distinct lines on the block, I suspect it happened during Parkerizing.

 

[62-10]

My money's on a bad Park job.

 

[Steve912]

My money's on a bad Park job.

What constitutes a bad parkerizing?

 

[62-10]

What constitutes a bad parkerizing?

It could be a number of things. I'm far from an expert in this area, so take my speculation FWIW...could be bad or at least incomplete initial prep/degreasing, &/or incomplete product application, &/or wrong temp in the tank, &/or improper rinsing, &/or failure to promptly/properly oil the new Parked finish...

 

[BJK]

Do you live in a humid environment? Were you eating salty snacks while working on it?

FWIW, even a blued gun which can easily rust won't with proper maintenance. I have blued guns that are decades old that haven't rusted at all. When I see rust it's clear that more maintenance, or different maintenance, is required than what has been performed to date.

I did have one gun that rusted even with proper maintenance. It was a K38 that I had in the '70s. It was my bullseye competition gun and I would clean, lube, and oil it after every match. The next week I handle dit and saw rust beginning to form. I mentioned it to my shooting mates and the first question asked was, "What are you using on it?". I had been using WD40. Wrong product! I can't address the products you're using, but if it's rusting something needs to change. With proper maintenance, as I wrote, even rust prone guns won't rust.

 

[reboot49015]

Wait, so you're saying I shouldn't store my guns in a sauna wrapped in salty rags after cleaning them in a swimming pool? ☺ Sorry, I couldn't resist.

So I decided to clean off the rust with a little oil and gentle polishing. The parkerizing was flaking off in chunks. I found a distinct inch wide line of what looks likes untreated metal under the rust. You can see the area in the pictures. The parkering didn't stick or wasn't applied correctly.

I submitted a ticket to KelTec 2 days ago, but haven't heard from them yet.

Thanks all for the help.

 

[BJK]

Yeah, sounds like it wasn't parkerized properly, but to my thinking the rust is a seperate issue. Parkerizing is more rust resistant than no finish, but not by much. It certainly isn't NP3+.

 

[Steve912]

Parkerizing doesn't confer rust resistance, it promotes oil retention (which confers rust resistance). If the the conditions for rust exist and the parkerizing isn't oiled, the underlying steel will rust.

 

[shifterkarter]

For what it is worth...

I disassembled my bolt assembly and polished everything with a buffing wheel and stainless steel polishing compound. I keep a light coat of oil on it - flawless operation...and it looks cool...lol

 

[reboot49015]

Here's the line on the bolt after cleaning off the rust. Spoke with Kel Tec, they are offering to reblue (not parkerize) the bolt, at my shipping cost, but it may take 5-8 weeks. What would you guys do?

 

[shifterkarter]

lightly sand (600-800-1000) , polish and oxpho blue (brownells product) yourself. I have done many projects this way and they turn out very well.

I can see the machining marks on it - looks a lot rougher than what mine was.

The fact that they are referencing bluing and not park tells me that the rust is a result of a very poor bluing job. My guess is that it was not neutralized after.

...just my 2 cents

 

[CharlieB]

"Oxpho blue" is not bluing, as we know it, but instead is selenium plating.

From my own perspective only here folks.... What I'd do with that puppy is clean it off really well, bead blast it (for conformity), and shoot it with some KG GunKote, and bake it as per directions.

I will say that GunKote will wear eventually, but only on obvious high wear places where parts slide or on corners.

To date, I've GunKote'd an old AR15 (low number commercial rifle), Officers ACP, CZ-75, other odd parts and such, two Kahr PM series pistols, and I can't think of what else at the moment. Its easy to apply and get "right" before baking.

If you have a small compressor and an airbrush spray or touch up gun....it makes the task of "getting it black" (or other color) easy.

Ah yes... GunKoted a Ruger 10/22 that I put a heavy barrel and lam stock on. That one is "royal blue". Also OD green on a Browning HP receiver, and grip safety and receiver on a RIA compact .45 GI series.

The idea with the Parkerize (phosphate) or any coating is both cosmetic and protective. GunKote will fill that void.

Thinking more.... numerous Harley parts done in flat black.

Small can will run ya about $10 at Midway

Even more thinkin... AK parts on my CIA AK63D. The stuff comes in handy

 

[shifterkarter]

The attached is a pic of a .22 pistol I made a while ago. The finish is oxpho blue that I applied with 0000 steel wool. The finish is smooth as butta. This type of acid bluing is controlled rusting - that's why you need to neutralize with water after or it will continue to rust...am unsure if it is a "plating", as parts not rinsed rust in a few days.

As Charlie has stated in the previous post - there are several options available - I guess it comes down to personal choice. I have not yet experimented with gunkote, but hope to soon on other projects.

ej

...btw, yes it is legal to make any firearm (per atf definition) that you are legally able to own for your own use as long as you are not reselling or making for others.

 

[CharlieB]

Shades of the WWII Liberator "flare projector" there! Love it.

Maybe I got my 'roids reversed. I know Brownells sells another "home blue". One of what they sell is selenium based, non rust application. And one has the red rust, card it off, reapply...etc until you get a finish you like. I know the selenium based blues smell weird, and when you get it on your skin, you'll fart the same weird smell too. Don't ask how I know.