Best Red Dot Mount Approach for New Sub2K Owner

Discussion in 'Sub9 and Sub2000 Rifles' started by jaguar100, Mar 15, 2020.

  1. jaguar100

    jaguar100 Member

    24
    Mar 15, 2020
    Hi all. I just purchased a new sub2k and I'm super pumped to get it.

    What's the consensus on best red dot mounting strategy for the sub2k?
    • Is it mounted directly on top, which you remove when folding the bad boy? And if so, does it stay zero'd in / sighted when put back on?
    • Is it one of the angled mounts where the red dot is off to the side a bit? Are people happy with this approach? And are there any of these where the gun is able to folded and locked into place? Also is it better if this is mounted on the top rail or on the side with m-lok?
    • Is it one of the hinged mounts supplied by the likes of Midwest Industries or mccarbo? Those are awfully expensive. And do they stay firm when folded in place for usage?
    Also, what are considered the best red dot / green dots for the money? Any highly rated budget red dots?

    Thanks!
     
  2. Steve Saunders

    Steve Saunders Well-Known Member

    203
    Aug 5, 2018
    Mine is on a riser on top of a QD mount. I remove it when folding. I'm surprised by how well it holds zero. I also did the "fold the rear sight forward" mod, since I was not interested in attempting to co-witness the sights. Pardon the background in the photos... my wife's taste in comforters. If you really want to know, I can probably figure out what riser and QD mount I used. If you want the rear sight mod, search the forum.

    20181102_073114.jpg 20181102_073025.jpg
     

  3. BJK

    BJK Well-Known Member

    486
    Jan 28, 2017
    central Maine
    Don't remove the sight every time at the M-Lok. That would be the pits. Unless you have something to mount on top personally I wouldn't mount it to the side. Once you use a red dot you won't even remember the peep sight. Ok, now we get to top mounting...

    I can't tell you which mount is best, but I have the Midwest Industries hinged mount and have fired thousands of rounds with it in competition with absolutely no problem. I eagerly anticipated MCarbo's but I'm trying to remember, did it make the gun too thick for easy transport? Anyway, I didn't change mounts. The MI returned to zero every time I swiveled it back into place and still does after a bunch of years.

    I have a closed tube type red dot and it works fine (heck I have a bunch of them). There are a mess of similar sights on the market. If you buy a $25 sight you'll regret it but I think a decent one can be had for a bit over $100 (Primary Arms). Names to consider, Holosun, Primary Arms, Vortex, Bushnell, Leupold, Trijicon, Accupoint, so many and I know I'm forgetting some. Any of those should serve you well. But so will an open projection type of red dot from the same names. I prefer the smaller lighter sights but go look at some and decide for yourself. BTW, when I write red dot I also mean green dot. Green is easier for the eye to see and the same brightness of green light appears brighter than red to our eyes. That goes for lasers as well.
     
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  4. jaguar100

    jaguar100 Member

    24
    Mar 15, 2020
    Thanks Steve. That's helpful.

    Does the rear iron sight that comes with the sub2k not fold down and those folding ones I've seen are aftermarket purchases? Is that what you meant by "fold the rear sight forward"?If not, what is the height optics needs to be mounted to clear that rear sight? How height is your riser? Or do most people using optics remove the rear site altogether?

    Also any recommendations on good low-ish priced red/green dots?

    Thanks again!
     
  5. Steve Saunders

    Steve Saunders Well-Known Member

    203
    Aug 5, 2018
    Not in order....

    I'm using a Bushnell TRS-25 RDS. Works well enough for me.

    Rear sight won't fold when open out of the box. The mod allows it to fold forward when the weapon is open.

    I'm using this riser. Adjustable in height. https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B076XQQ8PK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Not sure how high a sight would have to be to clear the rear sight. Too high for my taste.

    I would not remove the rear sight... you need backup in case the RDS fails (IMHO).

    Hope this helps.
     
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  6. MuzzleBlastMD

    MuzzleBlastMD Active Member

    58
    Nov 27, 2018
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    This is the MCARBO mount with a Primary Arms Compact Red Dot Sight.

    Before this, I used a rail mounted onto the hand guard, following by a 30 degree mount. It was a pain to zero it. I can open and close the Keltec Sub 2000 (Sub 2K) but I wasn’t a fan of using a red dot as a secondary sight.
     
  7. Feldwebel Wolfenstool

    Feldwebel Wolfenstool Member

    24
    Jul 24, 2017
    I've got a quick-detach VISM Red-Blue dot, 1.7" high AR-co-witness, with green laser...model #VDBRGLD With a 45 degree mount, the gun can ALMOST close completely. I also have a 2x optical scope for it. I put them on the left, I put them on the right, sometimes, I hang both of them on it, at the 45s, with the irons still available right down the middle. Being a lefty, I prefer mostly one on the left at 45. I really like the blue dot, as there isn't anywhere the astigmatism smearing that my eyeballs see with a red one. But most often, I simply use the gun naked.
     
  8. jonathan.57

    jonathan.57 Member

    4
    Feb 11, 2020
    How do you fold the rear sight forward?
     
  9. Steve Saunders

    Steve Saunders Well-Known Member

    203
    Aug 5, 2018
  10. jaguar100

    jaguar100 Member

    24
    Mar 15, 2020
    Thanks! To me the big issue of using this MCARBO mount or the other by Midwest is that they are both super expensive. One is $100 and the other $150. Kind of painful to get this gun at such a good price (sub $400) and then to have to pay so much for a mount. It seems like MCARBO is pricey for everything btw. Shame because they have some cool stuff.
     
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  11. Blackkat

    Blackkat Well-Known Member

    220
    Mar 4, 2020
    FYI, I have a simple TruGlow red/green dot I picked up from Academy around $50 bucks. It works fine and I can still fold the sub to get it in a small backpack if needed. It's is mainly a home defense and truck gun. Grab and go, I rarely fold my sub. Enjoy and welcome to the brotherhood. Oh yeah get that plastic feed ramp and plastic hammer bushing pin out of there ASAP.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Blackkat

    Blackkat Well-Known Member

    220
    Mar 4, 2020
     

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  13. wanderson

    wanderson Well-Known Member

    325
    Dec 30, 2015
    One other option is mounting a red dot as far forward as possible, although it won’t let you lock up, your Sub2k WILL still fold up small enough to fit in most cases. I ran mine with a trs-25 on a high rise mount and was able to fit mine in a large pistol bag or a soft mandolin case.

    I tried a QD mount and it would not release properly, it held zero fine but used a small metal clamp to lock in place. Works fine on aluminum rails but bites too deeply in polymer rails and needs a screwdriver to pop it off. Now I do have a QD scope mount that has a spring loaded bar on the side that runs the length of the mount and that holds and releases normally. Need to find a QD riser with the same mechanism.
     
  14. MuzzleBlastMD

    MuzzleBlastMD Active Member

    58
    Nov 27, 2018
    They give military and Law Enforcement Officer discounts.

    I got the MCARBO when the price was lower. Maybe $100? Or $120? I can’t remember.

    It swivels right into place and it feels stable. It does swing to the side which adds a touch to the width.

    I was about to get the Midwest Industries mount but the reviews saying it didn’t keep zero was a concern. Now I know that if someone changes ammunition it can change the zero. I don’t know what the background or experience the reviewers have so the reviews can be of questionable validity.

    I have this as a home Defense Rifle so I don’t want to have to take more time than necessary. If it is solely a range toy, it’s a different story.

    I have this on a few AR Pistols. It’s quite expensive but the the mount can easily be removed.

    American Defense AD-T1-10 STD Riflescope Optic Mount, Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MBBPB46/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_WLmDEb1H7WJJT
     
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  15. Feldwebel Wolfenstool

    Feldwebel Wolfenstool Member

    24
    Jul 24, 2017
    ...this Q-D red dot sight has a built-in 1.7 inch rise (houses a 3v lithium) to allow for perfect use with all IMGP6286.JPG AR-type front posts...far less scrunching down your head to get a sight-picture...plus a green laser and the option to use a blue dot, too....
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
  16. jaguar100

    jaguar100 Member

    24
    Mar 15, 2020
    Still, don't you think that even with a discount, paying $100 for a mount for a $400 gun is a little painful? It is for me. If I had the luxury of having lots of money I'd def go for one of those MCARBO or Midwest swivel mounts.
     
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  17. BJK

    BJK Well-Known Member

    486
    Jan 28, 2017
    central Maine
    Well, no, I don't think it's painful. It's figured into the cost of the gun right up front before I ever plunk down the $ for the gun I know what else I'm going to have to buy for it and a rough idea what I'm going to shell out if not the exact components. Many times I have the components before I have the gun. Optics and mounts frequently cost as much as the firearm. Quality doesn't come inexpensively, but not everyone thinks that way (more on that in a bit). It's your $ and your rifle. You know the use it'll be put to and what you want to spend.

    Many years ago a friend came over to shoot his clone military bullpup rifle on my range. The rifle itself was quite nice. But he had a POS red dot on it. I don't know what he spent but it was real garbage on a rifle costing at least $1k back then. It was a bright sunny day and even with the dot turned up to full brightness it couldn't be seen without studying the field of view for quite some time and even then it was a guess. He thought it was so marvelous that he could pick from many different reticles, none of which could be seen. He turned a really nice rifle into a POS with that sight. He did the same thing over and over with all of his rifles fitted with optics and I could never quite convince him that the sight was at least as important as the gun itself.

    I recently played musical sights with some guns to try to save myself from buying another sight. I found a red dot with a big tube in storage (it looked ancient) and it appeared that it was going to work after testing it indoors so I put it on a gun. Then I took it out to sight it in and had the same problem my buddy had. The dot couldn't be seen. I thought it was the battery and changed it, but no it was just ancient and back then LEDs weren't bright enough. That was a shame because as big as the tube diameter was on that sight it would have worked great for competition. I wound up buying another micro red dot.

    I have a friend in competition and we try to get on the same squad as often as possible so that we can shoot together. He has a nice PCC but scrimped on the sight and he's frequently putting new batteries in the thing. It always screws up when it's being shot for score of course and there are no "do overs" when the sight goes dim. He cripples his shooting by having (IMO) substandard competition gear. I'd have sold the sight long ago.

    I think the moral of the stories is that you get what you pay for. A swinging mount is extremely convenient and they work great. Is it worth that the $ to you? Only you can decide that.
     
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  18. MuzzleBlastMD

    MuzzleBlastMD Active Member

    58
    Nov 27, 2018
    I needed a solution. 40 S&W coming out of a long barrel is pretty impressive. Plus I could sound suppress it with a Can.

    Didn’t seem like a big deal to me. But I understand your point. I just love the feature of it folding in half. That’s pretty nifty.