Community for Kel-Tec Shooters banner
1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,474 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I have been shooting the kel tec 22lrs since they came out. I have even gone so far as getting a 16 inch barrel made for my cp33. I have another set up as a cheek pistol. once you get them dialed in nothing can compare to round count. Treated right those mags are phenomenal. They are so easy to be accurate.

I have a ruger lcr 22LR. very very reliable. The most reliable 22lr to shoot. Pull the trigger and it goes bang everytime. No hiccups jams or FTE
The lcp ii 22lr and kel tec p17 come in close second.

My p17 has been almost flawless but only really with thunderbolt ammo or most other 40 round nose h8gh velocity ammo.

Recently i have been obsessing over the sig p322 or the ruger sr22. Problem is sig is having horrible trouble with their barrels leading up. Shameful, as thats the one thing that in this day and age should not be a concern.

I had the chance today to handle a ruger sr22 . The ergonomics feel excellent in hand but the weight. It and the others in its class weigh 17 ounces unloaded. The kel tec 14 ounces loaded with 17 rounds. Seriously no way. Plus you have to purchase a fiber optic front sight. Then get mag extensions for it to even compare to what the kel tec p17 offers and at double or more the cost. Oh and if you dont get the one with threaded then thats another cost.

Seriously it has solidified my fan boyness for the kel tec cp33 and the p17.

The p17 trigger is great out of the box. The addition of the Mcarbo flat trigger makes the trigger as good as i would want it to be. Ergonomics are fine as they are. Not great like the sr22 but good. Better with talon grip material. Its as accurate as i am able to shoot. Super light and has all the ammo capacity i need. Now for range fun i have added the plus 4 extension. But for carry i stay with the standard mag.
The guns profile is sleek and not bulky. Grip length perfect while others too long or thick.

Yes i think the p17 for its diminutive cost is the best in its class. I havent seen where the others can even come close to its value and performance. Now i have found out that in order for it to be uber realiable you need find the ammo your particular gun likes and stock it deep. Fotunately mine will work with punch, cci velocitor , stingers and other high velocity rounds. For range thunderbolt. Keeping it clean is a must. its so simple to field strip and clean. Working on the guts of the gun can be a pain but very attainble with only a few simple tools.

Yes after going down the rabbit hole searching for a good if not great 4 inch range and possible ccw 22lr. The kel tec p17 came on top.

I am now very content with this gun and its fine attributes.

Your mileage may vary.

Ps. If ruger ever comes out with a four inch lcpii upper i may have to change my mind. That little gun has run everything with no issue . I added Mcarbo extra recoil spring so it would run the punch rounds.
But its super slim profile might edge the p17. I am currently looking at the threaded barrel. If it is actually fully rifled 3.5 inch barrel and the addition of the wingman +4 mag extension it may challenge the p17. I not holding my breath. As i think the added inch if barrel is threaded adaptor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
I have been shooting the kel tec 22lrs since they came out. I have even gone so far as getting a 16 inch barrel made for my cp33. I have another set up as a cheek pistol. once you get them dialed in nothing can compare to round count. Treated right those mags are phenomenal. They are so easy to be accurate.

I have a ruger lcr 22LR. very very reliable. The most reliable 22lr to shoot. Pull the trigger and it goes bang everytime. No hiccups jams or FTE
The lcp ii 22lr and kel tec p17 come in close second.

My p17 has been almost flawless but only really with thunderbolt ammo or most other 40 round nose h8gh velocity ammo.

Recently i have been obsessing over the sig p322 or the ruger sr22. Problem is sig is having horrible trouble with their barrels leading up. Shameful, as thats the one thing that in this day and age should not be a concern.

I had the chance today to handle a ruger sr22 . The ergonomics feel excellent in hand but the weight. It and the others in its class weigh 17 ounces unloaded. The kel tec 14 ounces loaded with 17 rounds. Seriously no way. Plus you have to purchase a fiber optic front sight. Then get mag extensions for it to even compare to what the kel tec p17 offers and at double or more the cost. Oh and if you dont get the one with threaded then thats another cost.

Seriously it has solidified my fan boyness for the kel tec cp33 and the p17.

The p17 trigger is great out of the box. The addition of the Mcarbo flat trigger makes the trigger as good as i would want it to be. Ergonomics are fine as they are. Not great like the sr22 but good. Better with talon grip material. Its as accurate as i am able to shoot. Super light and has all the ammo capacity i need. Now for range fun i have added the plus 4 extension. But for carry i stay with the standard mag.
The guns profile is sleek and not bulky. Grip length perfect while others too long or thick.

Yes i think the p17 for its diminutive cost is the best in its class. I havent seen where the others can even come close to its value and performance. Now i have found out that in order for it to be uber realiable you need find the ammo your particular gun likes and stock it deep. Fotunately mine will work with punch, cci velocitor , stingers and other high velocity rounds. For range thunderbolt. Keeping it clean is a must. its so simple to field strip and clean. Working on the guts of the gun can be a pain but very attainble with only a few simple tools.

Yes after going down the rabbit hole searching for a good if not great 4 inch range and possible ccw 22lr. The kel tec p17 came on top.

I am now very content with this gun and its fine attributes.

Your mileage may vary.

Ps. If ruger ever comes out with a four inch lcpii upper i may have to change my mind. That little gun has run everything with no issue . I added Mcarbo extra recoil spring so it would run the punch rounds.
But its super slim profile might edge the p17. I am currently looking at the threaded barrel. If it is actually fully rifled 3.5 inch barrel and the addition of the wingman +4 mag extension it may challenge the p17. I not holding my breath. As i think the added inch if barrel is threaded adaptor.
I love my P17 too. I've got over 6K rounds thru it since Feb (mostly HV plated rounds), and t's run everything I've put thru it with very few issues, and most with no issues at all. But I have noticed that un-plated rounds do lead the barrel up pretty damn quick, to the point that in clean up it comes out in slivers. Ex: Sunday I put 100+ rounds of Rem GB & Win White Box thru it w/o issue, ran a bore snake 3-4 times, then ran 100+ rounds of Rem Thunderbolts w/o issue and called it a day. It then took me the better part of an hour or so to de-lead the barrel, when it's usually a 15min cleanup after shooting only plated rounds. Now I will say that the barrel was hot by the time i shot the Thunderbolts, was outdoors under the sun, plus we've been having temps near 100' daily and the bullets have been subjected to that heat because my range stuff stays in my truck. Have not had the gun long enough to shoot much in cooler temps, so I don't know if that would slow down the leading process. Do you think all the excess heat can softened those bullets to some extent, promoting faster leading up of the barrel?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,474 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I don't think the heat has anything to do with it. Think about it if they got soft then they would deform and have trouble feeding. Melting point if lead is 327 centigrade. I dont think the inside of your auto gets close. I live in el paso Texas but maybe if you live in Phoenix. Not sure but not likely.

It has more to do with the inherent nature of lead bullets and barrel manufacturing.

There is a ton of conjecture about barrel leading and the 22lr.

Allot of it is regarding guys that are spending exorbitant amounts of money on hyper accurate barrels.

The type of leading issues the sig p322 is having is abnormal. There are many on you tube documenting this problem ex:


That type of leading after 40 rounds is a manufacturing issue. Barrel rifling rough or caliber diameter off.

Some say you should not clean your barrel with bronze bore brush. I beg to differ
Ex:



Now if you have to clean your barrel via crown end then yes care should be taken.

Because you dont really want to ding the crown as it will affect accuracy. Most cleaning rods are made of much softer metal than the barrels so it shouldnt happen but better safe then sorry.

There are many coatings manufacturers put on bullets but I think it has more to do with sealling the bullet in the rifling then preventing leading. Of course powder coated bullets are a different story as it acts like a copper plated bullet.

The copper wash 22lrs are not the same as a full metal jacket. Its a ultra thin wash over the lead. It may help but i dont think by much. Cci coating may be thicker. I am not sure.

Two to three humdred rounds in a session should warrant a good barrel cleaning. There may be some lead deposits but nothing like that sig barrel.

There area many various lead removal products but the best i have found are the lead removal cloth. Ex:


Or my go too. A bronze bore brush with a few stands of 100 pecent chore boy pot scrubber wrapped around it.
You have to be sure the label or packaging says 100% copper.

That takes any lead particles of the bore with ease and no chemicals needed.

Get a bore light so you can see the inside of barrel to insure you have gotten it clean. Then i go back and clean per normal. Couple of strokes with bore brush dipped in hoppes #9 or mostly i use Ballistol. Then run patches or a couple of runs with bore snake.

I shoot mostly the thunderbolts and havent had any leading issues. Now there may be a few same particles after a long session but again nothing like that sig barrel.

After experiencing some reliablity issues with various manufacture 22lrs i have gotten back to a good cleaning after eaxh range session. Shooting glicks and revolvers got me lazy but the 22lr brought me back in line. Lol... its good practice.

I have leaded a ruger 1022 barrel once. That was after using it for several years and neglecting it. I dont know if i even ran a bore brush down it. Shameful on my part.

Anyway....long winded i know but there was alot to unpack with your question.

This is just my opinion. I am no expert but i did sleep at a holiday Inn last night.

Seriously ther is so much technical information regarding barrel leading and cast lead bullets thats your head spins.

I wanted to give a generic simple answer.

I hope it helps and other chime in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
141 Posts
I've never noticed any leading issue with any of my .22s, rifle or pistol. With the exception of when I shoot matches, I should pretty much any .22 I have laying around. That includes Thunderbolts, of which I've shot thousands over the years. Never had any issues. I do tend to clean all my guns when they have no more than about 500 rounds through them, so I'm not Mr. Clean with barrels.

As to the Sig P322, when they came out I really was jonesing for one. Thank goodness I couldn't find one. They got great reviews initially. But then there started popping up feeding problems at roughly the 800 round mark. Now this leading thing is a real nightmare. It's interesting that the leading didn't come up with the early guns that were having the 800-round feed issue. The leading seems to be a newer phenomenon. Either way, I think I'm fine with my P-17, Ruger Mk2, S&W 617 10-shot, a couple of 10/22s including a full Clark Custom, and a fun little Rossi 62 pump. No need for a 322!
 
  • Like
Reactions: silverback

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
I don't think the heat has anything to do with it. Think about it if they got soft then they would deform and have trouble feeding. Melting point if lead is 327 centigrade. I dont think the inside of your auto gets close. I live in el paso Texas but maybe if you live in Phoenix. Not sure but not likely.

It has more to do with the inherent nature of lead bullets and barrel manufacturing.

There is a ton of conjecture about barrel leading and the 22lr.

Allot of it is regarding guys that are spending exorbitant amounts of money on hyper accurate barrels.

The type of leading issues the sig p322 is having is abnormal. There are many on you tube documenting this problem ex:


That type of leading after 40 rounds is a manufacturing issue. Barrel rifling rough or caliber diameter off.

Some say you should not clean your barrel with bronze bore brush. I beg to differ
Ex:



Now if you have to clean your barrel via crown end then yes care should be taken.

Because you dont really want to ding the crown as it will affect accuracy. Most cleaning rods are made of much softer metal than the barrels so it shouldnt happen but better safe then sorry.

There are many coatings manufacturers put on bullets but I think it has more to do with sealling the bullet in the rifling then preventing leading. Of course powder coated bullets are a different story as it acts like a copper plated bullet.

The copper wash 22lrs are not the same as a full metal jacket. Its a ultra thin wash over the lead. It may help but i dont think by much. Cci coating may be thicker. I am not sure.

Two to three humdred rounds in a session should warrant a good barrel cleaning. There may be some lead deposits but nothing like that sig barrel.

There area many various lead removal products but the best i have found are the lead removal cloth. Ex:


Or my go too. A bronze bore brush with a few stands of 100 pecent chore boy pot scrubber wrapped around it.
You have to be sure the label or packaging says 100% copper.

That takes any lead particles of the bore with ease and no chemicals needed.

Get a bore light so you can see the inside of barrel to insure you have gotten it clean. Then i go back and clean per normal. Couple of strokes with bore brush dipped in hoppes #9 or mostly i use Ballistol. Then run patches or a couple of runs with bore snake.

I shoot mostly the thunderbolts and havent had any leading issues. Now there may be a few same particles after a long session but again nothing like that sig barrel.

After experiencing some reliablity issues with various manufacture 22lrs i have gotten back to a good cleaning after eaxh range session. Shooting glicks and revolvers got me lazy but the 22lr brought me back in line. Lol... its good practice.

I have leaded a ruger 1022 barrel once. That was after using it for several years and neglecting it. I dont know if i even ran a bore brush down it. Shameful on my part.

Anyway....long winded i know but there was alot to unpack with your question.

This is just my opinion. I am no expert but i did sleep at a holiday Inn last night.

Seriously ther is so much technical information regarding barrel leading and cast lead bullets thats your head spins.

I wanted to give a generic simple answer.

I hope it helps and other chime in.
I enjoyed the insight and the videos.....very informative and a lot of food for thought, thank you. I experienced leading like that Sig early on with my P17, so bad so, that I literally thought it was the inside of the barrel falling apart and that I'd have to send it to Kel-tec for replacement!!! I mean bullets were keyholing and accuracy had gone totally to ****. But I got it home and then realized it was lead and used some of those many cleaners and brushes and swabs and other cleaning tools I've been collecting for years for my ARs, and gave it a good deep clean to 'like new' status, and that's how I keep it from now on. I mean the gun is so easy to dismantle and clean that I almost look forward to it. But unlike my ARs, I too clean and de-lead this little baby after every outing. I've been using primarily Hoppes #9 and a bore brush til clean, a few passes with a snake, then a light coat of Breakthrough oil. I've never checked it with my scope, but I think I will tonight.
Have you ever tried the CCI CLEAN ammo and your thoughts on it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,474 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Never tried the clean ammo. I would like too at some point to see if it actually works. My concern would be feeding. Hopefully they consider the increaae in diameter of the bullet when they coat it. Having uses powder coating when reloading hand gun bullets they should keep from leading the bore.

I have to try them some day.

If your seeing thay kind of leading after one range session i would send it back.
200 rounds should not produce leading like that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Never tried the clean ammo. I would like too at some point to see if it actually works.

If your seeing thay kind of leading after one range session i would send it back.
200 rounds should not produce leading like that.
Really? Why could mine and not yours or someone else's if we're all using the same ammos? In all honesty, this is my first 22 handgun so I don't realize what's supposed to be normal and what is not. I have a PMR30 and a 9mm handgun, but neither have ever gotten near the volume of rounds thru them this P17 is getting.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,474 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Look at borderbosses post above. Thats usually the norm. 200 rounds should not be leading your barrel to the point of clogging it up like that sig barrel. Yea some barrels may lead some lead smears but not clogged like that. I hope others chime in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Look at borderbosses post above. Thats usually the norm. 200 rounds should not be leading your barrel to the point of clogging it up like that sig barrel. Yea some barrels may lead some lead smears but not clogged like that. I hope others chime in.
I may just run some Thunderbolts or Automatch thru it to see if it does clog up and to see what that round count would be
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,474 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I have been running my lcpii 22lr to check reliability and compare to p17.

I will say the lcpii 22lr is a formidable competitor. Eapecially with the wingman +4 mag extensions. It weighs 13 ounces loaded compared to 15 ounces loaded foe the p17 and lcr 22lr. Its much thinner and easier ro carry.
Its accurate but not as accurate as the p17.
Its just aa reliable with thunderbolts for plinking at the range. It also runs higher quality 22lr rounds like punch, velocitor and stringers etc.

The one problem it has is ejecting a dud round with magazine inserted. The round comes out half way but doesn't fully extract the round. You have to drop the mag in order to etract the round. Not the best option if you ever need it in an emergency.


If i can get ruger to rectify this issue it may take over the p17 for reliable carry.

Until then the p17 is still second best after the lcr.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,474 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I have been looking at other 22lr offerings. The sig seems to be going through serious teething issues . The Taurus tx22 still seems to have a great reputation. Still both are 17 to 18 ounces.
Fn502 looks like a good offering but 24 ounces.
Berreta m9 27 ounces.

Heck if i want that kind of weight i would go with cp33 and additional round count.

So far the p17still, in my humble opinion, is keeping its shared top position with the lcpii for round count and weight. P17 15 ounces loaded and lcpii with plus 4 mag extensions 13 ounces.
P17 top for value packed pricing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
141 Posts
Silverback, I really wanted the Sig to be the "real deal", but am I glad I didn't go out of my way to find one! Talk about a company really screwing the pooch with a model introduction. So much for the old "fine German engineering".

My go-to handguns for .22 right now are still the P-17, and when I want to go wheel gun, the S&W 617-6.
Trigger Air gun Gun barrel Ruler Font
Trigger Air gun Gun barrel Ruler Font
Trigger Air gun Gun barrel Ruler Font
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top