Community for Kel-Tec Shooters banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
95 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Assuming:
  1. The best way to win a gunfight is when the bad person goes away without any shots being fired.
  2. A bad person is more likely to go away if a good person's weapon looks more menacing.
  3. A bayonet on the end of a weapon makes the weapon look more menacing.
  4. A bad person is more likely to go away from a good person showing a weapon with a bayonet than one without one.
  5. Our particular good person has a CP33 which might be called upon for SD.
  6. The M-LOK underside rails on the CP33 are not otherwise being used.
  7. Our good person wants to mount a bayonet onto those bottom rails.
  8. Bayonet spikes and extensions, such as those offered by mcarbo for the Kel-Tek KSG, might work if they could be mounted onto the bottom rail of a CP33.
  9. Other ways of mounting a bayonet onto a CP33 would be worth exploring.
What are some good ways to mount a bayonet onto a CP33?

What are some good bayonets to mount onto a CP33?

Thank you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
708 Posts
Those are a lot of assumptions. Assumptions in SD aren't the best things act on.

I have wanted to do that (affix a bayonet) for the comedic factor for competition. It wouldn't be legal for use on the targets but it would get a few chuckles. There's no rule against having it on the firearm (that I've found), for competition, at least USPSA which is what I do. But for a one time joke I have better use for $15.

OK, humor is over, I'm going to assume :D you're serious, but I hope not.

Assuming ( :) there's that word yet again!) that you come upon someone who doesn't gives a rats hind end about how something looks, or it's dark and can't be seen, you'd be in deep kimchi. To employ a bayonet you want the longest rifle you can get and not a handgun. Too, a knife is lethal force so why hold back on using cartridges if it's reached that point? Let's see, you pull a handgun to show someone a knife? Really?

If I saw a bayonet, or any other knife, and there was no way for me to disengage, you might be hoping for an ambulance to show up a split second later but I doubt that would be going through your mind, the second shot would be. Lethal force is lethal force, period. If I see a knife, any knife, at fairly close range, 20' would do it, same circumstance where I can't disengage, same reaction. I can't think of a better way to commit suicide by anothers hand than to come to a gunfight with a knife. Take the time for me to see it? You can't react fast enough to prevent what's about to happen.

But #1 is where you begin to go wrong. The best gunfight isn't the one where no shots have been fired. It's the one that never happens at all. Disengagement doesn't mean posturing to see whose is larger. Disengagement means leaving and not getting involved at all. Threatening with lethal force is a no-no. When lethal force is pulled out it's already gone beyond "mine is bigger than yours" and lethal force is immediately used unless the aggressor ceases before your trigger prep is finished. You never want it to get to that point but if it does it means you've done everything possible to prevent it and the aggressor is a few ounces from catching the bullet. At that point there is no stopping the trigger finger because the command can't get to the finger faster than finishing the squeeze. That's why when shooting par times for score 1/3 second is factored in after the buzzer sounds. But one of those things one does isn't bluffing or showing the firearm to impress. You need to understand that or you'll have a very difficult time if you intend to carry and you'll make all of us look bad.

Question for you... Do you affix the bayonet by asking for a time out? Or do you walk around with it affixed on an already large for carry handgun? The "CP" in CP33 is an acronym for competition pistol for a reason. There are much better CCW handguns that don't fire a mouse cartridge.

I really hope this was just a joke on your part.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
95 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Those are a lot of assumptions.
I appreciate your analysis, BJK. Whether or not a CP33 would be good for SD would a whole nuther thread, at least. All guns and all ammo have their shortcomings.

I saw somebody on youtube shoot 15 rounds with a CP33 in 2 seconds and the only reason he stopped was because his mag was empty. I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of that, even if it is, as you say, a mouse cartridge.

I've seen statistics saying 31% of the time a .22 stops somebody on one shot. To simplify, let's round that up to one third and compare it to rolling a die. The odds of rolling a 1 or 2 on one roll are 33.33%. What are your odds of doing that if you have multiple rolls? Here's the math:

Rolls > Odds

1 > 33.33%
2 > 55.56%
4 > 80.25%
8 > 96.10%
16 > 99.95%
32 > 99.99%

A CP33 is capable of that many shots without a reload.

The odds are pretty similar starting with 31%. If the shooter is a better shot and/or using quality ammo, the odds get even better. Hitting with multiple shots is far more likely to succeed than hitting fewer shots with a bigger caliber. None of that math factors in the people who stop just seeing the gun or give up after being hit when they could have continued.

As far as the use of the CP33 with a bayonet, think McCloskey × a few dozen. If "mostly peaceful" protestors come to our area, there's a plan to patrol the entrances to our neighborhood with guns displayed. If you follow the news, when word has gotten out there are people with guns in an area, and word does get out fast about these things, the protesters have tended to go elsewhere. I suspect if, instead of just McCloskey and his wife on their lawn, there were a dozen neighbors at the gate with weapons, the protesters would not even have entered their neighborhood.

Seeing a CP33 decked out similar to yours, plus a bayonet on the end, and others with their various weapons, most protesters would decide to go elsewhere. If most leave, lots, if not all, of the rest will follow. When word gets out on social media, many others on their way will not even arrive. I've seen it in the news, with the actual social media posts. That's the plan for our neighborhood.

Day to day, wouldn't carry it with a bayonet, although, like you say, it could be fun to take it to the range. Day to day, wouldn't carry it at all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,067 Posts
Bayo sounds fun on a range toy, photo ops, or generally screwing around.
But practical? They are heavy and mess with ability to rapidly aim and hold etc, making fatigue set in faster. They make carrying/drawing/presenting the gun that much harder. They are a risk: if you are in a situation and mobile, you could impale a good guy rounding a corner -- finger off the trigger does not make a giant knife any safer. Unclear how the courts would react to such a weapon, but it is likely to scare the jurors more than the jaded thug.
you go over all the points ... the odds of actually stabbing someone with it in defense, the odds of getting stabbed with it yourself in a struggle, the odds of mobility problems in a situation, the jury risk, ... what is the upside? That you have some small % chance to scare off the guy that didn't run when you shot him the first time or pointed your gun at him? Anyone with the sense to run from a knife will run from a gun faster, I would think??

That said, they are cool looking and I am all for making such a setup for fun. But this sounds like a lot of risk to pile into the 'maybe it will scare them off' bucket.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
So it appears you aren't joking, eh? The reason bayonets are usually put on rifles is because the length of the rifle keeps distance between you and the enemy. Bayonets on pistols do not make a lot of sense because you don't get the added range of the length of the rifle and it is also a lot more clumsy to hold on a pistol. Think about how you're going to hold that thing at try to jab at someone with it. You're better off with a fixed blade knife you can actually grip if you were to actually need to use it in self defense or combat.

And regarding ammo for self defense, I have been shooting 22LR long enough to know it shouldn't be used for it. People always seem to get hung up on ballistics, but it's capable. The issue is just the design. Rimfire rounds are designed to be economy rounds by eliminating the cost of the primer which is an extra component and process in manufacturing. However the trade off is they are much, much less reliable than center fire cartridges. Duds and light strikes are much more common in rimfire than center fire. This is the last thing you want to happen in a defense or combat scenario.

Not only that, most box mags for 22LR are finicky at best and a lot just flat out don't work They have gotten better through time but still are not comparable to centerfire magazine reliability. It is a combination of the oversize rim/primer and the loose tolerances on the bullet. Since it is inherently an economy design there is poor CQ and it is also manufactured en mass - I think it is the most prevalent caliber in the US over 9mm and 5.56 but I might be wrong. The CP33 is an awesome piece of innovation and now that I found the ammo it likes (i.e. slick and not poly coated) it runs like a top but I get a hickup here and there. And shooting a large volume of ammo fast makes the last problem even more obvious. Going through so much 22LR I find duds almost every time I go. You can remedy this somewhat by using a revolver, becasue if there is a dud you can just keep pulling the trigger instead of having to clear the malfunction. You also don't need to worry about your box mag functioning properly. I would feel better with a revolver in 22 WMR but better still with anything centerfire.

If you're still adamant on using it for defense or protection after reading my wall of text or if it is your only option it is better than nothing. But if you want to make good use of the rail a light/laser instead of a bayonet you could actually use the strobe or laser to disorient any would be attackers and a light would add some utility at night time.

I hate to be a a buzzkill, it would be a fun joke but I cannot entertain a pistol bayonet or a rimfire for self defense for any serious reasons.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
" 2.A bad person is more likely to go away if a good person's weapon looks more menacing."

A sane gun enthusiast is likely to stare in amused disbelief when you start seriously talking about mounting a bayonet to a .22cal pistol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,520 Posts
Only & I do mean only, if it's a factory original Kel Tec Folding Bayonet (the one on the left the other is a knife). Second pic shows it mounted on one of those bullpup thingies.

bayonet.jpg
bayonet 2.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
708 Posts
Only & I do mean only, if it's a factory original Kel Tec Folding Bayonet (the one on the left the other is a knife). Second pic shows it mounted on one of those bullpup thingies.

View attachment 50656 View attachment 50658
:DYeah, he doesn't mean that.

Personally, I wouldn't even like a bayonet on a bullpup, any bullpup. Below is more along the lines of what I'd like.



More of a long spear with some real weight behind it. The bayonet is long enough to use as a sort of "stringer" for the enemy :D . At 16" long it would fit 2. The problem with some bayonets is the suction that prevents it from being pulled out. It helps to put a bullet in the carcass to introduce some air so that it can be withdrawn. I don't think a through and through hole from a 16" bayonet would have that problem.

I had one of those 1917 Enfields with original bayonet and like a retard I sold it. It was quite a piece for history and a great rifle for bayonet use. Today I would just carry more ammo and keep the mess at a distance. I wish I still had it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,520 Posts
I've got my Dad's Arisaka Type 38. Doesn't have the cleaning rod or bayonet. when I was a kid, 1960's, the Jap bayonets were pretty common. Now they are not cheap. Just looked at one on ebay that was $50 with the wood handles missing. Complete they are running over a $100 & up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
708 Posts
Now they are not cheap.
Yup. I have no idea what that 1917 of mine with gear would go for today, but if I still had it I'd only part with it for an absolutely insane price that no one would pay. All that surplus stuff sold for peanuts 50-60 years ago.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,067 Posts
My 1909 arg has one of those long sword ones. Somewhere along the way it was matched serial numbered to it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
708 Posts
That's cool! I'm no expert but I would imagine that matching serial numbers mean something extra to a collector.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,067 Posts
I don't think it was factory stamped, though. I never got a straight answer on all that; some said importers did it, some said the army / arsenal did it, etc. FWIW the muzzle cap, all numbered parts, bayo & its sheath, etc all match. Its not worth as much as a good new gun, from the couple of times I got an estimate for fun (I have no intent to sell it).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,238 Posts
Yup. I have no idea what that 1917 of mine with gear would go for today, but if I still had it I'd only part with it for an absolutely insane price that no one would pay. All that surplus stuff sold for peanuts 50-60 years ago.
the eddystone model 1917 in good shape are averaging 600-1000 on gun broker these days. Prob more since beer-flu days are upon us. A period correct bayonet can fetch up to $100. Matching serials even more.

My yugo m48 mauser and bayonet are one my favs took me a while to find a matching bayonet, frog and sling for it
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
708 Posts
the eddystone model 1917 in good shape are averaging 600-1000 on gun broker these days. Prob more since beer-flu days are upon us. A period correct bayonet can fetch up to $100. Matching serials even more.

My yugo m48 mauser and bayonet are one my favs took me a while to find a matching bayonet, frog and sling for it
Mine was in excellent condition and it was an Eddystone. I won it at Second Chance in the mid 80s. I always regret selling firearms. But I sold it decades ago and have regretted it ever since. I sure hope whoever got it from the old gent who bought it kept everything together and is enjoying it as much as I did.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Assuming:
  1. The best way to win a gunfight is when the bad person goes away without any shots being fired.
  2. A bad person is more likely to go away if a good person's weapon looks more menacing.
  3. A bayonet on the end of a weapon makes the weapon look more menacing.
  4. A bad person is more likely to go away from a good person showing a weapon with a bayonet than one without one.
  5. Our particular good person has a CP33 which might be called upon for SD.
  6. The M-LOK underside rails on the CP33 are not otherwise being used.
  7. Our good person wants to mount a bayonet onto those bottom rails.
  8. Bayonet spikes and extensions, such as those offered by mcarbo for the Kel-Tek KSG, might work if they could be mounted onto the bottom rail of a CP33.
  9. Other ways of mounting a bayonet onto a CP33 would be worth exploring.
What are some good ways to mount a bayonet onto a CP33?

What are some good bayonets to mount onto a CP33?

Thank you.
I know it's not the answer you're requesting but I think a bayonet isn't such a good idea. as it could prove cumbersome in certain situations like in cover and around corners. A belt-placed knife like the KaBar Marine fighting knife with partially serrated edge might be a better option.

"Only God is good." - Jesus
 

·
Read Only
Joined
·
69 Posts
Assuming:
  1. The best way to win a gunfight is when the bad person goes away without any shots being fired.
  2. A bad person is more likely to go away if a good person's weapon looks more menacing.
  3. A bayonet on the end of a weapon makes the weapon look more menacing.
  4. A bad person is more likely to go away from a good person showing a weapon with a bayonet than one without one.
  5. Our particular good person has a CP33 which might be called upon for SD.
  6. The M-LOK underside rails on the CP33 are not otherwise being used.
  7. Our good person wants to mount a bayonet onto those bottom rails.
  8. Bayonet spikes and extensions, such as those offered by mcarbo for the Kel-Tek KSG, might work if they could be mounted onto the bottom rail of a CP33.
  9. Other ways of mounting a bayonet onto a CP33 would be worth exploring.
What are some good ways to mount a bayonet onto a CP33?

What are some good bayonets to mount onto a CP33?

Thank you.
Best way to win a gunfight is to not be in a gunfight. Too many variables, and too many instances where both sides end up dead. Avoidance guarantees that you get to go home for supper. But if it's inevitable, best chance is to be faster, with better aim, and more determination, than the other guy. Draw first, aim better, and don't stop pulling the trigger until the other guy is done. That takes a lot of practice.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top