Bad Day at the Range

Discussion in 'P-3AT' started by Checker4Tix, Apr 12, 2008.

  1. Checker4Tix

    Checker4Tix Well-Known Member

    Aug 6, 2007
    Today was the only bad day I've ever had with my beloved P3AT. I hope you guys can help me get her back into shape.

    1) I had two failures to extract on WWB. This is the most serious issue. In both cases it appeared that the extractor was not over the rim of the case. I haven't cleaned it yet, but I can't see anything obviously wrong when I pull back the slide and look at the extractor. It certainly isn't broken. I haven't shot it in a while - maybe two months. I pocket carry in a Nemesis daily. Could it just have been dirty and somehow jammed up the extractor? How about weak recoil springs? I've got maybe 500 rounds total through her at this point?

    If the primary culprit here is limpwristing I swear I'm going to sell all my guns and just carry a pocket full of rocks.

    2) My Armalaser proved to be a POS for me today. After the very first round, the dot moved about 6" to the right at 15 feet. I just turned it off for the rest of the session. I'll call Rick on Monday. This is completely unacceptable.

    3) Take a look at this...
    That's a Golden Saber. I tried to fire that one three times - it no go bang! It doesn't look like a light strike to me. Does it to any of you? Do you think if I write Remington they will give me a free box?

    I've never had a failure to extract EVER on any of my guns, and I've never had a failure to fire EVER on any factory new ammunition. The gremlins were having a field day with me today.

    FWIW, total round count through my P3AT today was about 65.

    P.S. Just created an account and sent an email to Remington about the dud round. Attached the above picture too. I'll let you know what I hear.
  2. Rubb

    Rubb Well-Known Member

    Jun 19, 2006
    IMO if it was not cleaned for those 2 month in your pocket that could be a problem,
    there would be enough lint build up to slow the action and get in behind the extractor.

    I would get a different lot of sabers too, use those for target practice
    that is not a light strike.

  3. wheelguy

    wheelguy New Member

    May 4, 2007
    Hopefully, it's just dirt. You get enough crud in the firing pin hole and it'll jam like that as I understand it. Personally, I like to keep the round count on my carries very low and have fun at the range with something else. 500+ rounds sounds like some serious cleaning needed territory to me, though, and perhaps some spring replacements too. Again - just guesses on my part - as I like keeping carry numbers low.
  4. Checker4Tix

    Checker4Tix Well-Known Member

    Aug 6, 2007
    No, no, no. I only shoot a few mags at most each time I pull it out. I clean it thoroughly afterward every time. I didn't shoot it 500 rounds today. That was my estimated lifetime round count. I've cleaned my P3AT many many times. I just haven't cleaned it in about two months (nor have I fired it in that time) - but I do carry it daily in my front pocket.

    On the other hand, could lint buildup in the firing pin hole cause extraction failures?
  5. Rubb

    Rubb Well-Known Member

    Jun 19, 2006
    2 months of build up ia a lot.
    IMO it could get behind the extractor.

    If you can see the case from the top of the slide when loaded
    there is room for lint to get in.

    Also after 2 months I would imagine there was a lot of build up
    with in the frame rails, thus slowing the slide.

    Cleaner up and have a better trip tomorrow ;)
  6. wheelguy

    wheelguy New Member

    May 4, 2007
    Taking apart the firing pin assembly so that the internals can be properly cleaned is much more difficult than a regular cleaning. Doable, but it needs doing after so many hundred rounds. While you're in there - may as well replace the springs too. Hopefully someone with 1000+ rounds will be along to give you better information than low milers like me...
  7. Checker4Tix

    Checker4Tix Well-Known Member

    Aug 6, 2007
    I've heard of guys who clean their guns once a week no matter what. If that is the issue, now I understand why. Anyone else have any thoughts on this.

    BTW, Rubb, I see you must be from Ohio. I'm from the Dayton area. How about you?
  8. Checker4Tix

    Checker4Tix Well-Known Member

    Aug 6, 2007
    Yes, I've done that before a couple of times. It has been a long while, however. Maybe its time again.
  9. Rubb

    Rubb Well-Known Member

    Jun 19, 2006
    I've heard of guys who clean their guns once a week no matter what. If that is the issue, now I understand why. Anyone else have any thoughts on this.

    BTW, Rubb, I see you must be from Ohio. I'm from the Dayton area. How about you?

    Yea that's me can't go longer than 2 weeks.
    I tried one time just for a dirty gun test but couldn't take it.
    Thanks for doing that test for me ;D

    PM sent ;)
  10. alamo

    alamo New Member

    Sep 12, 2004
    The Golden Sabre seems to be just a bad round.  It's certainly not unheard of.

    I've gone several months at a time without cleaning occasionally.  I shouldn't but that's the way it is sometimes. I've then gone to the range and just as a test,  I shoot the carry ammo, "as is".  I've never had a failure yet with that mag. Then I shoot a box of practice ammo.  Late in the session with the practice ammo, I've had a jam a time or two which I attributed to loss of lube/crud build-up. For that reason, it doesn't particularly concern me.  That was with my 1G P-3AT and it hasn't happened in a good while either.  

    My 2G P-3AT doesn't seem to mind it. I've shot up to 107 rounds with it without recent cleaning/lube and it works fine.  I've never felt like shooting more than that at one time. Perhaps if I continued shooting past that point it might jam eventually but since I don't plan on shooting that many rounds in self defense (I only carry 7!) I wouldn't worry about it unless I felt the problem was unrelated to lube/cleaning.

    Since the Golden Sabre may not have been a bad round, I would take out the firing pin and clean the channel as a precaution.
  11. engineer88

    engineer88 New Member

    Nov 26, 2007
    There may just be no primer in the case.... :-/
  12. gatorhugger

    gatorhugger Banned

    Jan 19, 2008
    Just a thought, if you are cleaning with just a light oil like CLP or a dri lube it could be partially drying out between cleanings. Then as friction builds after 20-30 rounds it could be "clean" but dry enough to slow the slide.
    Are you greasing the hammer slide interface and barrel lug and rails? Just a light moly grease, not lithium.
    If so, then ignore above, might be time to go to the shop.
  13. adamsesq

    adamsesq New Member

    Dec 25, 2006
    I think GH has it right. I HEAVILY lube (dripping and just wipe the exterior off) with grease and oil and mine are too dry for more than a mag or two after about a week.

  14. Checker4Tix

    Checker4Tix Well-Known Member

    Aug 6, 2007
    I always leave her dripping with lubrication. I use grease on the slide rails, hammer face, hammer bar and the barrel lug. Everything else I hose down with CLP. Right now the grease I am using is Militec-1. Any suggestions for good grease when I run out of this?

    I just cleaned all my guns this evening. I could not find anything obviously wrong with the extractor, but I'm by no means an expert. I'll try cleaning it week to 10 days till I get to the range again. If all goes well I'll chalk it up to a dirty gun, otherwise I'll order some replacement parts and go from there.
  15. xrmattaz

    xrmattaz New Member

    Sep 10, 2004

    I like this answer. May just be an inert primer in that round?
  16. Mark_F

    Mark_F New Member

    Mar 29, 2008
    That isn't much of a DENT in the primer! Go look at those that fired... you'll see better penetration. I would say your pistol needs a complete dis-assembly and a thorough cleaning job. (This is where small revolvers pay off). Pocket semi's collect dust, dirt, lent, etc. throughout the slides and other  critical components. Clean it, and use light gun oil to lube it, and your mis-fires will go away.

    RE: Aramlaser
    Just one more thing to go wrong. The rules of carry are: Keep it small, keep it simple, keep it reliable.
  17. fatman

    fatman New Member

    Apr 6, 2005
    Check the screws on your Armalaser. If the screws loosen the zero will shift at some point. I use a little blue locktite on the screws that go through the reinforcing bar.
  18. Checker4Tix

    Checker4Tix Well-Known Member

    Aug 6, 2007
    I have already used locktite on the mounting screws. They are secure. Last night, I tried to zero my laser and the adjustment screws had no affect. Time to call Rick and discuss this with him.
  19. Checker4Tix

    Checker4Tix Well-Known Member

    Aug 6, 2007
    Update on the Armalaser:

    I emailed Rick at Armalaser earlier today and explained my issues. He emailed back and asked me to call him. I emailed him back and asked if I could call him when I got home, as I was at work at the time. He said ok and that he'd stay a bit late for me. Nice!

    When I got home, I called him and we went through a checkout procedure which my unit failed. He said on his way home he'd put a new unit in the mail for me, along with a return envelope for me to use to return my current laser.

    Plus, he said that Kel-Tec had recently taken over making the metal internal parts for the Armalaser!!! I didn't know that. He said that KT's parts are being made to higher tolerences than his previous vendor. I hope that this means that problems like I experinced will be a thing of the past. Looks like I'll be getting a bit of an upgrade.

    I'll keep you posted if there are any other issues.
  20. Chuck-Baby

    Chuck-Baby New Member

    Jan 28, 2008
    Hopefully it was a dud primer but isn't that one heck of a note. Sure glad that you had that dud at the range rather than at a time of serious need. If you happen to have another 380 or a friend who does, you might give it one or two more tries in another gun, just as another check.

    Have a good shooting day,