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When are we going to get rid of dangerous gun-free zones? Even in Florida, one of the most gun-friendly states, we have these dangerous zones where shooters don't have to worry about victims shooting back. We must get rid of these!

http://www.ammoland.com/2016/06/flo...hooting-was-in-a-gun-free-zone/#axzz4BNiyEBGp
Excellent article! Although the gay community is not big on CCW, they may want to take note, especially if they are considered "the enemy" by some zealots.

You have to ask yourself, how well would this slaughter have gone over in a biker bar in Texas?
I'd say about 15 seconds tops:eek:.

Gun-free zones only guarantee that all victims will be defenseless. Nothing more.
I believe every American has the right to defend themselves regardless of race, gender, or orientation choice.
Perhaps the 'community' will move gradually over to our side of the "non-defenseless" and start to demand their right to not be a victim.

I don't know why, but this video just sticks in my head:
https://youtu.be/vsVCHE7ayPE?t=25s
An armed society is a safe society.
A disarmed populace are simply sheep standing in line at a slaughterhouse:mad:.
 

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It's my understanding that a lot of states have statutes making establishments that make more than 51% of their income from serving alcohol gun free zones. In this one case I might actually personally agree. But it would make for a good argument.
 

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It's my understanding that a lot of states have statutes making establishments that make more than 51% of their income from serving alcohol gun free zones. In this one case I might actually personally agree. But it would make for a good argument.
Hey!
Drunk lives matter!
Everyone should have the right to shoot back.
Even stupid people:rolleyes:.
 

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I would be more willing to accept a law that says, "Alcohol on board, carrying a gun = illegal".

I've been in bars and never had a drop to drink. It is extremely rare for you to see me in such a place, I never go there on my own. However, if a group of friends is going, I'll go along (sometimes) for the social aspect. But I don't have anything to drink. So I think banning firearms in bars is overkill, just ban the mix of alcohol and guns (in/on the same person).

No, I'm not against alcohol used appropriately. I like a cold beer on occasion, but don't like being around drunks. It's just that I'm too cheap to pay what they charge in a bar. What is it now, $7 or $8 for a beer? Get out of here!

It's my understanding that a lot of states have statutes making establishments that make more than 51% of their income from serving alcohol gun free zones. In this one case I might actually personally agree. But it would make for a good argument.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
It's my understanding that a lot of states have statutes making establishments that make more than 51% of their income from serving alcohol gun free zones. In this one case I might actually personally agree. But it would make for a good argument.
Well, I disagree. It's illegal to drink and drive, but they don't ban cars on the road simply because you can have booze in your car. Driving and carrying is bad, but they shouldn't ban guns in the venue. Drinking and carrying should be treated like drinking and driving. Drinking and carrying should be comparable to a DUI.

We should allow guns in places that serve alcohol, but if you drink while carrying, you could be arrested.
 

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We should allow guns in places that serve alcohol, but if you drink while carrying, you could be arrested.
As I said, it is a good subject for an argument. I agree with your sentiment above. But like DUI's (who I have ZERO sympathy for), who is to say who can't hold their liquor? Do you really expect every macho man out there who has a CCW NOT to drink simply because he is a responsible gun owner and CCW? PULEEEZE!!!! I myself who very rarely has a beer with dinner have on occasion caught myself ordering my single beer BEFORE I remembered I was carrying and changed my order (because of my job I cannot carry daily, and with a comfortable holster I do sometimes forget I have it on me when I can carry). Would that ONE beer have influenced how I might react to an aggressive customer? Doubtful, but I don't want to be the test case. If you're not drinking but a drunk gets aggressive with you how will you respond? Club him with the gun or shoot him?

Is the wait staff now going to be responsible for asking if a prospective buyer is strapped before they can fill their order? I don't think that's reasonable either.

My attitude is simply to avoid establishments that are LABELED as gun free zones. The state laws I allude to don't necessarily require the signage in the places I am referring to. The gun owner is supposed to be aware of the distinction and act responsibly in those cases.

Or just do like transgenders have been doing for years regarding bathrooms before some idiot decided to pass a law. Take your pick quietly and just don't say anything. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
We deal with the EXACT same issues with regards to DUI's. Use the same blood-alcohol tests for CUI (carrying under the influence). We expect macho-man drinkers not to drive their cars after they drink, so why is concealed carry any different? It's not.

I don't drink, so maybe my point of view is different, but I don't think alcoholic venues should be gun-free zones--unless metal detectors and security is provided to ensure the venue is indeed gun-free.
 

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I would be more willing to accept a law that says, "Alcohol on board, carrying a gun = illegal".
Initially when Ohio got CCW the law was that any place that served alcohol was a gun free zone. In 2015 that was changed to be as long as you don't drink and the place isn't posted you can carry. I haven't drank for years and I try diligently to avoid gun free zones. My kid's school, the hospital, and the post office are the only places I occasionally go to that are gun free.
 

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I've been in many a drinking establishments in Wyoming and Montana where you walk into a saloon, and 90% of the patrons have a sidearm in their holster. It makes for a very cordial feeling int he bar when you know everyone is strapped

I have zero issues with it either way. If you're drunk and looking for a fight, I'd rather have everyone around me have one than only one crazy guy who thinks he's going to end all our days due to his religious beliefs
 

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After decades of stupidity, TN got it right recently.
Here in TN, you can carry your gun anywhere that is not posted private property or certain government buildings. If you drink even 1 sip, you broke the law. You can go into the bar, but you can't drink -- which FINALLY allows us to get a steak while carrying instead of just fast food as good eating places are all considered "bars". Basically you choose .. drink, or carry. On top of that, you can't be prosecuted for legitimate proven self defense if you broke other firearms related laws in the process (for the most part, and I THINK this includes drinking. It does not, as I recall, include being a felon though).

But it varies from state to state. IMHO being at 1/2 the driving limit or worse should be at least a misdemeanor if armed. Booze and guns don't mix, and we don't need drunks giving carry permit holders a bad name.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
After decades of stupidity, TN got it right recently.
Here in TN, you can carry your gun anywhere that is not posted private property or certain government buildings. If you drink even 1 sip, you broke the law. You can go into the bar, but you can't drink -- which FINALLY allows us to get a steak while carrying instead of just fast food as good eating places are all considered "bars". Basically you choose .. drink, or carry. On top of that, you can't be prosecuted for legitimate proven self defense if you broke other firearms related laws in the process (for the most part, and I THINK this includes drinking. It does not, as I recall, include being a felon though).

But it varies from state to state. IMHO being at 1/2 the driving limit or worse should be at least a misdemeanor if armed. Booze and guns don't mix, and we don't need drunks giving carry permit holders a bad name.
Perfect! Now that's exactly what I'm talking about!
 

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Vote for HRC and keep gun free zones safe for the thugs.
I really cannot understand why with so many there someone or a few did not take him down. Maybe they would have been killed, but what to lose?
Jerry
 

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Vote for HRC and keep gun free zones safe for the thugs.
I really cannot understand why with so many there someone or a few did not take him down. Maybe they would have been killed, but what to lose?
Jerry
That is what blows my mind. If 100 people got shot, there had to have been 150, 200 or more people on site and another 50-100 not too far away (nearby buildings, etc). And not a one of them shot back, no group of 5 or 10 bum rushed him during a reload, nothing.

Add to that, this is long, long "overdue". Don't read that the wrong way.. but for years I have been saying that someone who actually knows how to shoot, reload, and so on is going to go crazy and do some REAL damage. It finally happened. Horrible as it is, we have known for 20+ years that it was only a matter of time before something like this happened. Yet still we have unarmed victims, crappy security, open borders, and every possible enabler you can think of to allow this sort of thing to happen. Everyone from the guy that hung the no guns sign to the club that had no armed guards to the clueless fools that were tracking this guy but apparently not closely enough all share a piece of this.
 

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Don't groups of people that go to bars sometimes have a "designated driver" that does not drink to drive everybody home? How about a designated pistol packer to keep them safe while in the bar. Of course the pistol packer would not drink.
 

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Don't groups of people that go to bars sometimes have a "designated driver" that does not drink to drive everybody home? How about a designated pistol packer to keep them safe while in the bar. Of course the pistol packer would not drink.
On the surface, not a bad idea. However, even though concealed carry permit holders have nearly tripled over the past 10 years, there are still only some 11 million. Nationwide, that's little more than one in 30. Among the young club-going population, it is almost surely far, far less. So in the average small group of club goers, no one would have a permit.

Secondly, statistically the odds of being killed by a terrorist don't even make the radar. There is a very long list of mundane causes of death that far supercede the likelihood of being killed by a terrorist, including lightening strikes, falls in the bathtub, etc., not to mention automobile accidents, heart disease and cancer. Since 911, the total number of Americans killed by terrorist worldwide is in double digits. Certainly terrorism is a problem that needs to be handled, but if you want to live longer, start with healthy lifestyle. There is an incredible amount of fear mongering taking place courtesy of the media. It's great for ratings. Neither is there any shortage of fear mongering in the political arena as it serves the needs of many political agendas.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Don't groups of people that go to bars sometimes have a "designated driver" that does not drink to drive everybody home? How about a designated pistol packer to keep them safe while in the bar. Of course the pistol packer would not drink.
I think DWP (Drinking While Packing) should be treated the same as a DUI. If you drink and carry a gun, you should be arrested.

I *DO* think a lot of LGBT people carry guns, though, since they seem to be in a high-risk group.
 
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