Ammo Report Information

Discussion in 'P-3AT' started by Curt32, Apr 8, 2008.

  1. Curt32

    Curt32 New Member

    Feb 24, 2007
    Hi guys after spending over an hour pouring over the ammo reports I couldn't find anything on the Cor-Bon 90 gr. +P actually there are not standards for +P in 380. But anyway I was just wondering how this round compares with the widely expensive Cor-Bon DPX, and possibly the 102 Remington GS, seems like I have my carry load narrowed down to these three and possibly Buffalo Bore 90 gr. with the Gold Dot HP. Maybe I overlooked the the Cor-Bon tests getting ready to place an ammo order, so I'm hoping someone can give me a hand.

    Tom j
     
  2. theheater905

    theheater905 New Member

    236
    Feb 8, 2008
    Tom,
    I am not sure about the comparisons between the rounds you mentioned but I was carrying the CorBon DPX. I sent you a PM with some sites for you to check out that might help answers some questions.
     

  3. Curt32

    Curt32 New Member

    Feb 24, 2007

    Thanks, I'll check my mail. Here's a link for the Cor-Bon 90 gr. you can get it a few dollars cheaper at the Sportsman Guide 17 bucks I think.

    http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=179428

    Tom j
     
  4. gvaldeg1

    gvaldeg1 New Member

    152
    Feb 8, 2008
    Curt:  The Buffalo Bore (BB) loads "blow the socks off" any other 380 loads.  Although SAAMI does not have a +P pressure rating for the 380, BB loads their 380's up to a reasonable max and tests them with "real" guns including the P3AT.  The BB +P 380 loaded with 90 gr Gold Dots makes 1100 fps muzzle velocity in the P3AT.  Nothing else comes close.  Check this out if you haven't seen it.  It speaks for itself!

    http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1202857757
     
  5. pfgrone

    pfgrone New Member

    17
    Jul 4, 2005
    Curt32:
    “But anyway I was just wondering how this round compares with the widely expensive Cor-Bon DPX,….”

    From the Corbon catalog online:
    http://www.dakotaammo.net/2008CorBonCatalog.pdf

    SD38090/20 380 Auto 90gr JHP 1050fps/220ftlbs 2.5” bbl
    DPX38080/20 380 AUTO 80gr DPX 1050fps/196ftlbs 2.5” bbl

    The difference is apparently in the design of JHP bullet vs. an all copper bullet as far as penetration & expansion.
     
  6. gatorhugger

    gatorhugger Banned

    236
    Jan 19, 2008
    First off, stats are one thing, meat is another.
    Do what I do, go buy some Roasts, turkeys, whatever, buy a box of each and have fun!!!

    The sabers expand huge after good penetration, low kick, but smaller wound channel. The Buffalo's blow a huge wound channel, bite pretty fair, and tend to disintegrate on hard bone. Take your pick them in your magazine

    Dont know a thing about Corbon.
     
  7. forestranger

    forestranger Active Member

    Jan 29, 2008
    NC
    Gatorhugger, u got to try some DPX on one of your roasts for us? ;)
     
  8. gvaldeg1

    gvaldeg1 New Member

    152
    Feb 8, 2008
    One good thing about Buffalo Bore is that, if you are near a Cabela's, you can order them online and have them shipped to your local store for $19.99 a box with FREE shipping. I know because I just got some last month.
     
  9. Curt32

    Curt32 New Member

    Feb 24, 2007
    Thanks, well I guess there are no field tests on this load, the Cor-Bon SD38090. As far as the BB it was my understanding that they kick so hard you accuracy suffers with this load. Guess the best load is the DPX but the price of these things have just gone through the roof. Last box I bought was 19 bucks I think there now something like 27 dollars way to much for 20 rounds of 380 ammo, at that price you would think they were 454 Casull rounds.

    Tom j
     
  10. gvaldeg1

    gvaldeg1 New Member

    152
    Feb 8, 2008
    Thanks, well I guess there are no field tests on this load, the Cor-Bon SD38090. As far as the BB it was my understanding that they kick so hard you accuracy suffers with this load. Guess the best load is the DPX but the price of these things have just gone through the roof. Last box I bought was 19 bucks I think there now something like 27 dollars way to much for 20 rounds of 380 ammo, at that price you would think they were 454 Casull rounds.

    Tom j
    [/quote]

    The 90 gr Cor-Bon JHP (if it really does 1050 fps from a 2.5" bl) would have 220 ft lbs of muzzle energy, recoil velocity of 23 ft/sec, and a recoil energy of 6 ft lbs.  The 80 gr Cor-Bon is a little less.  The BB 90 gr Gold Dots were chrono'ed in real P3AT3 at 1100 ft/sec.  This gives a muzzle energy of 242 ft lbs, recoil velocity of 24 ft/sec, and recoil energy of 6.5 ft lbs.  This means either (A) - the P3AT doesn't kick so bad with the BB's ,(B) - Cor-Bon is exaggerating their velocities or (C) - The kick from the Cor-Bons is about the same as that for the BB's.  In truth, my impression is that the P3AT doesn't kick that badly with anything.  I used to have a little Uberti Colt 1873 replica in 44 magnum with the western style "plow handle" grip.  That little sucker rotated so violently that, if I let my pinkie slip between the butt and my supporting hand, it would crush it enough to bruise it.  Anyway, that felt a lot worse than my P3AT...so does my 16 ounce .357 snubbie revolver.  BTW: I used a program that I wrote for calculating the ballistics data.  The moderator of the USA Carry Concealed (USACC) forum posted it on his website.  Here's a link to that calculator:

    http://www.usacarry.com/index.php/ballistics-calculator.html

    I hope that you enjoy the calculator.  If the moderators of this forum want to use my ballistics calculator here, if they'll email me, I'll send them the HTML (javascript) code free.

    BTW: I use 5 grains for a powder estimate in the 380 calculations above.  Powder momentum does affect recoil but in these small amounts, it's not a major factor.  I used 75 grains of H335 in my Win 458 magnum...that made a lot of difference.
     
  11. wheelguy

    wheelguy New Member

    May 4, 2007
    Those are some great numbers gvaldeg1. I wasn't aware that BB had such reasonable recoil numbers. I can't feel much recoil from BB because I am used to a 12oz 357, but others feel it is significant. Glad you put some hard data to this issue  :).

    Digging... digging ... oh, here it is - Corbon DPX averages 980.8 fps in my HC P3AT. I wonder why so many cartridge manufacturers exaggerate their data?
    [​IMG]

    Notice that the Buffalo Bore Gold Dot has substantially greater energy...
    [​IMG]
     
  12. gatorhugger

    gatorhugger Banned

    236
    Jan 19, 2008
    I don't know about 6.5 pounds or whatever textbook says. I do know that BB do kick pretty well for a 380. Not as bad as 125 grain 357's in a snubbie of course. Still very manageable.
    But in a 9 ounce gun, accuracy tends to be an issue with these hot loads. They kick pretty good for this little gun.
    More than inaccuracy,with Buffalo Bore I would be worried about penetration. As I mentioned before they tend to blow themselves up on bone.
    I would stack a penetrator like a FMJ or a Saber, along with BB.
    But to each his own.
     
  13. gvaldeg1

    gvaldeg1 New Member

    152
    Feb 8, 2008
    Great stuff wheelguy.  I too wonder why these manufacturers exaggerate so badly.  Don't they realize that there are a lot of chronographs in private hands?  I hate to nitpick good data but, the P3AT barrel length is 2.75 inches not 1.75 inches.  Also, looking at your data, I'm going to pick me up some 125 gr BB for my 16 ounce .357.

    Thanks!
     
  14. wheelguy

    wheelguy New Member

    May 4, 2007
    Gatorhugger is doing what many have chosen to do - stacking FMJ with JHP. I think it's a good strategy when combined with double tapping. Personally, I use all BB JHP for non cold weather carry, because I feel it has plenty of power. Gatorhugger already pointed out the key ingredient in his test - the thickness of the ham bone is much greater than what you find in a rib cage. If the BB Gold Dot does hit a heavy bone like the spine - it'll do a good job of stopping the attack, even if it goes no deeper. When I do stack for winter, it'll be BB Gold Dot and BB flat nose FMJ.

    125gr does appear to be the "gold standard" for 357 magnum, although some highly experienced folks will carry the heaviest bullet they can find. For SD, however, it comes down to what makes the biggest hole at 12 inches of penetration. Heavier may go deeper, but if it isn't designed to give a bigger hole, then deeper isn't likely to be as helpful stopping the BG. It's all about what SD scenario you expect. If you are a LEO, then heavy is better because you may have to shoot through a door, windshield, or arms/legs. SD is different - close, fast, and open.

    Barrel length is measured in different ways for semis vs wheels. The numbers above are the actual measured length from the tip of the bullet to the end of the barrel. It is the distance that the bullet travels under pressure that matters - that's why I choose to compare different firearms using bullet-to-end measurements. Semi-autos sure seem better when measured the other way, though! I wonder why they advertise those numbers instead of the real bullet travel measurements?
     
  15. forestranger

    forestranger Active Member

    Jan 29, 2008
    NC
    DPX avgs 1020 out of my 3at but as I recently found out with some 9mm DPX, velocities may vary by lot. Got ahold of some hot stuff!
     
  16. gatorhugger

    gatorhugger Banned

    236
    Jan 19, 2008
    Just to come full circle, and Getting off 380 for a moment, I have totally changed my opinion on 9mm loads. I now load heavier, if I have rangers or talons. I used to be a 115 grain +p+, or an HST 124 +P carrier.
    After seeing the destruction a slow 960 FPS 147 grain black talon will do, I will load nothing else in my nine.

    And it is correct that in my test a ham bone is about as thick as a fibia. Which you won't encounter in a mans rib cage area, so even though a BB will blow up on a thick bone, it's a moot point. So you can't go wrong with BB dots all the way really. I dam sure wouldn't want to get popped with one, they ain't bouncing off a coat. If you practice with it and can control it effectively, I can't think of a more destructive loading. I love the sabers, but I admit I had to add a couple of the BB to my mags, too strong a player to leave on the bench!
     
  17. Curt32

    Curt32 New Member

    Feb 24, 2007
    Thanks  gvaldeg1 really impressive work on the calculator!!

    Tom j
     
  18. Curt32

    Curt32 New Member

    Feb 24, 2007
    That's what I heard what's your carry load in your P3AT?

    Tom j
     
  19. Curt32

    Curt32 New Member

    Feb 24, 2007

    Say you make an excellent point about the thickness of the ham bone used in the test. And I'm surprised I didn't think of it, seeing I've had a class in human anatomy. Just wondering if it would disintegrate on anything on found in he chest cavity, if not then maybe these BB Gold Dots deserve a second look. Thanks

    Tom j
     
  20. gatorhugger

    gatorhugger Banned

    236
    Jan 19, 2008
    I'm doing more testing this weekend with a turkey I believe. Right now I have sabers and BB in the mag. Best of both worlds.