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757 Views 19 Replies 10 Participants Last post by  riverkeeper
   Today, Greg has asked me a question. I have already answered it directly because he also gave his email address. Maybe some of you would like to answer as well:

(Today at 9:15am) greg has sent you the following Instant Message:

"Hi Packer,

    I am Greg from Syracuse,New York.I have had a permit here for many,many years and have carried dif guns.I have done about 300 hours of study in the last 2 months online regarding mouse guns and cw under 16 ounces.I have followed many of your posts and feel you can be trusted with advice.I would like a 32 or 380 ...but am not thrilled at all with my nib gun taking trips south for modification.I have a very dangerous job in a very dangerous neighborhood.I am trying...thru a fed licensed dealer of get a 32 or 380 than has ALREADY gone thru its baptism of fire and is ready to be carried.Do you know anyone who has such a pistol.I carry a NAA nostril gun right now but it is clearly not enuf.

    One local dealer here only believes in revolvers...which I can he can't help me much.The other dealer has 380's (usually 3) but when I ask him if he got them from Kel-tec he freezes.I think he may be getting them nib from GunsAmerica...but don't know for sure.I just want a WORKING gun that is ready for ccw.Frankly, I would pay the NEW gun price for a used KT that was fully functional with any additional instructions on its maintenance.If you can help me,I would be most thankful.
                                              Sincerely yours,

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Hi, Greg! I don't recommend buying a used mousegun. The fact that it was flawless before means nothing. A. You don't know how it was cared for or what ammo was used.

B. You don't REALLY know how many rounds have been through it.

C. People have been known to lie.

I am sorry to have to inform you that the ONLY way to guarantee flawless performance in a mouse gun is to thoroughly test it yourself. Even if you GOT one, YOU might have malfunctions because you are not used to the peculiarities of the mousegun and its tendency to be easily limp wristed.

I would recommend that you buy a NEW P3AT with full factory warranty, and do the testing and returning as necessary to make it trustworthy. While you are doing the testing, you will also be developing your mousegun skills and strengths.

I know that's not what you want to hear, but sometimes there are no shortcuts.

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probably the best advice u can give a person IMO. Buy new, then sort out the bugs if any are there. IMO I would buy the 380. alittle bit more power, no more problems than the 32 and today they all do seem to be getting much better out of the box etc. Once you get these kt's running right, there is no better mousegun-period. I will have to admit that sometimes it is very frustrating getting them to that stage though, but today they are a 100% better than a year ago's models..
Might as well buy NIB, especially a Newbie, as the price of used Kel-Tec mouseguns continues to clime. Some folks are checking retail store prices, then offering their used P-3ATs above the wholesale price of a new one.

Wilson – who’s disappointed his $90 offer on a problem prone P-3AT was second best :(
well, given the geographic area, I could manage to point him to a reputable dealer.

if so inclined.
Define mousegun? Is it the size of the gun - or the size of the cartridge? Is a full size gun that shoots 380 ACP a mousegun? What about a 12 ounce 357 mag?

I am about 1/4 of an inch away from buying a S&W 340PD - 357 mag (38 special / 38 special+P if you want) revolver - holds 5 shots - mousegun size moosegun power.

I am starting to think the guy at the gun store that is pushing revolvers may have the right idea - at least you have a 99.99% change it will work if you need it.

My attitude stinks right now - too many problems with semi auto's. So please excuse my rant -
I don't think that qualifies as a mouse gun:

A mousegun is most often considered a category of small revolver, or semi-automatic handgun intended for self defense; typically such small pistols are of 32 caliber of less. The term "mouse gun" is a joke referring to the small caliber being capable of only bringing down animals the size of mice. The term is used to describe a class of small handguns.

Revolver mouseguns exist too. Examples are the North American Arms Mini Revolver which is a spur trigger design with birdshead grips. The North American Arms Mini Revolver is styled very much like popular pocket revolvers of the 19th Century but is made entirely of stainless steel.
Here's a pic of TxCajun holding a PF9 and a mousegun revolver. Can you guess which one is the mousegun?

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Two Pistol Packer said:
  Here's a pic of TxCajun holding a PF9 and a mousegun revolver. Can you guess which one is the mousegun?

Believe it or not, that little revolver has a much more impressive recoil than the PF-9!
Two Pistol Packer said:
Here's a pic of TxCajun holding a PF9 and a mousegun revolver. Can you guess which one is the mousegun?
Geez.... He does kind of look like festus! ;)
Yep! Put a cowboy hat on Tex, and that avatar is pretty accurate.

That was actually the rat gun pictured here above the mouse gun:

I sometimes carry the 22 mag down to the corner store and such, but usually the 22LR is just a novelty or range toy. However, yesterday, the LR went grocery shopping in my watch pocket. There are a lot of mice around those supermarkets. ;D
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I have had that NAA 22 lr for over 25 years. until the kt 380 came along it was in my pocket 24/7. Still a nice little gun.. Mine back then even had the wood grips on it.
Mine came with the rosewood grips but I found them to be a bit slick.  These textured rubber grips are easier to hold onto when the little blaster goes off.  BTW Jocko, I assume your vintage mini does not have the saftey cylinder with the notches between for safe carry.  I believe that NAA will upgrade it for free if you send it in.
Greg wrote "I would like a 32 or 380 ...but am not thrilled at all with my nib gun taking trips south for modification.I have a very dangerous job in a very dangerous neighborhood."

You could buy 2, that way you would not be alone if you had to send one away on vacation. ;)
peaceful99 said:
Geez.... He does kind of look like festus!   ;)

LoL, I think it was sometime last year that I compared TxCajun to a mix of Matt Dillion and Festus!
This S&W revolver makes a nice concealed carry piece. My dealer has this one for $399. It or one like it ( maybe a 357 ) is on my list of guns I want.
Greg, There is a great deal not covered in your request.

For instance, how big are you, Might you be able to conceal a larger gun. This is quite important, as larger guns are more reliable and can use a more power full cartridge.

How price sensitive are you. If your budget is tight (as perhaps a pizza delivery man), a $1000 mouse gun is a bit high.

Can you handle high recoil. My wife says my 2 inch snub revolver kicks to much, and I can't get acceptable power out of my .38 snubs. I think it is fine. Then again, many say the P3AT kicks hard. But, I don't even feel it (and that is without finger extentions).

Most of the recommendations I have seen, say to use at least a 9mm. Perhaps a .40 S&W is preferred. Others suggest a .357 revolver is equal. But a 12 oz .357 is high dollars (to me) and high recoil (I expect, as I haven't shot one).

So where am I? I recently bought a glock. Really 2, both compacts (G23 & G19). The subcompact glocks (G26 & G27) are listed a 19.75 oz each. But be aware that 15 rounds of 9mm will weigh near another 8 oz. These were on sale for $445 at cabelas (that is $100 off), before any late price increases. do note that glocks are made to police and/or military standards. Both of mine are perfect from shot 1. My only problem with glocks, Is that I think of striker fired pistols as cheap and plastic as cheaper. But the more I look, the better the design looks. Partly because there is no hammer to push on the slide and cause drag. I am also impressed with the way the striker is mostly released as you let the trigger go forward, very clever.

Also, Kahr makes a PM9 that is mentioned favorably every now and then, and is fairly light and is claimed to be reliable.

I have a P3AT for me and a P32 for the wife. I also have armalaser for use when dark. The laser does nothing in day light, but really helps when the light is dim.

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i would ask if Greg has actually fired a STOCK p3at?

IF not, the offer is there.
Let's turn a new 380 into a reliable smooth used piece would require:
1. F&B 2 hrs + felt and sand paper = $35. This is an anal-retentive effort by me with extraordinary attention to detail.

2. Purchase 300 rounds ($72) , range time(3 hours $36), 3 round trips travel time ($30), clean-lube between 100 rounds ($22) = $160.
No charge for shooting time!!

3. Shipping =est $15

Total is about $210.

Edit -- Ramectomy if necessary $15

Warranty-- None, this is on a 'best effort' basis. Trips to Florida for Lil' Betsy, if necessary, is extra.
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