[weblance]

This is a copy and paste of a thread I currently have running on three other boards, so some of the comments about my SU-16C may seem a little odd here. I know everyone on this board knows all about the SU-16, but I'm thrilled with my new Kel-Tec, and I want to share, and hear other SU-16 owners comments.


Because of the upcoming political uncertainty, I decided I should buy a semi auto rifle before we might not be able to. Being a Ruger fanboy, the choice was obvious, a Ruger AR 556 was what I wanted. They aren't easy to find, but searching around, I found and ordered one from Kentucky Gun Co. and had it shipped to my favorite dealer. Easy and painless, it arrived in 6 days, and I went and picked it up. While I was there, he showed me a Kel-Tec SU-16C in Olive Drab Green. I was intrigued with its features, and the fact it uses AR-15 magazines. I took my AR 556 home, cleaned it, and went to the range.

I was immediately disappointed in the trigger. It has horrendous creep, and a very heavy break. Reading on the internet that its the way a mil-spec trigger is, I decided that I would purchase a drop in trigger when I save up the money. The second thing I didn't like, was the rear sight. The aperture is so small, that to my eye, it looks out of round. Since my intent was to scope my rifle, I decided to shoot it as is, and rely on the sights if the scope ever fails. The sights were no where close to adjusted(I know Ruger doesn't adjust handgun sights) and the bullet impacts were 6" low, and 6" right, at 25 yards. The rifle shot well, and I had no failures in 120 rounds of brass 55 grain, and 30 rounds of 55 grain steel cased ammo. As I was casing up my AR 556, I noticed a small pin sticking out of the gas block. As I looked closer, one pin was completely gone, lost I assume, in the gravel and spent casings, at the range. After looking for the pin for 15 minutes, I went home and called Ruger. The lady who answered the phone was polite, apologetic, took my info, and placed an order for replacement pins. Disappointed in my first experience with my AR 556, my thoughts wandered to the Kel-Tec SU-16C. Since my dealer offered to sell it to me at cost, (we are friends) I decided to purchase it. I picked it up last Saturday, and I got a chance to shoot it today.

My first experience with my Kel-Tec was wonderful. The rifle shot perfectly, the sights are easy on my eyes, and adjusted perfectly, and nothing fell off the rifle. It has a very nice trigger, with a short take up, then a medium weight break. I shot the same round count as the Ruger, 120 brass cased, and 30 steel cased. It's an interesting rifle. It's piston driven, has an under folding stock, can be fired in the folded position, and the forend opens into a bipod. I doubt I will shoot it folded, but I do like that this allows for discrete transport in a small case, and won't alarm someone who isn't gun friendly.

I am happy with both my rifles, but so far, I like the Kel-Tec better than the Ruger. Right out of the box, its has performed above the Ruger. Both rifles cost me the same money. Both rifles show equal accuracy in my hands. Im sure the Ruger AR 556 is a fine rifle, but in my opinion, it needs a trigger upgrade, so it will cost more in the long run. The Kel-Tec has been available for more than a decade now, and reports of its durability are excellent. Its built to last, and has a lifetime warranty.

I cant wait to go to the range again. I know which rifle I will take.

 

[steve76]

I have an SU16A and also S/W AR15 and Bushmaster AR15 all in 5.56 cal. Out of the 3, I do prefer the Keltec to shoot and also the fact that smaller to transport. No hiccups from it since new and about 1k rounds fired through it.

 

[shep854]

In my book, the biggest advantage of the Charlie stock is that it can be folded with the rifle loaded*, allowing for much faster access than the Alpha stock, which cannot be folded with a mag in the well, and requires fiddling with a retaining pin that can be easily lost OR holding the stock open with the firing hand.
----
*With USGI or other metal mags. Polymer magazines require some careful whittling on the inside of the stock.

 

[WRBuchanan]

weblance: I have a KT SU16CA, a Bushmaster Carbon 15 AR and a Mini 14. I shoot them all interchangeably.

My AR is very similar to the Ruger AR and in the same price range. My Brother bought 2 Rugers for him and his wife.

All these gun makers get their generic internal parts from the same sources so there is little difference. They all are intended to be "Military Like" triggers and can be easily improved.

All I did to the trigger on my AR was install a Brownell's Reduced Power Spring Kit ($12 and 15 minutes to install) and put some moly grease on the sear. And then I shot it about 500 times in 4 days. The trigger is very nice now and certainly good enough for what the gun is intended to be,, IE: and Entry Level AR. and possibly a Defensive or Offensive small arm.

The differences in entry level AR's and high end AR's is mostly in the price. Since very few non professional shooters will ever know the difference between the tow classes of guns. Most people will never shoot an AR enough to reap the benefits of the more expensive gun.

Every gun is different and every trigger can be learned if you spend the time to do it. I shoot about 10 different guns every month and none of the triggers are the same. I can get back onto one in as little as 3 shots.

I mean if the trigger had a Nebulous Take up and moved sideways a 1/4" as you applied pressure I could see changing it out but otherwise just shoot it and enjoy your $600 gun. It will get better just by shooting it. And things do fall off AR's so it's a good idea to check the status of your gun frequently until you establish that it is running right and staying together.

A good addition to both your K-T and your AR would be Bushnell TRS 25 Red Dot sights <$90 each. I have them on all my Carbines and they are definitely the way to go for optics for Carbine Class Rifles.

Also if you look close at your rear sight it might have another aperture under the one you've been shooting with. I just found out about them a little while back and the one on top folds out of the way and a larger one is exposed.

Good Luck!

Randy

 

[weblance]

WR, thanks for the post. I am deciding what to do with the Ruger trigger. I will strongly consider your advice on a spring kit.

A friend sold me an EOTech 512, and that's on my Ruger now. I also have a Primary Arms Advanced Micro Dot ordered, and that will probably go on the Kel-Tec.

I'm thinking of picking up another AR, a flat top for a scope, so I can get some practice at long range paper punching, then turn it loose on the groundhog invasion on my friends farm.

 

[TSiWRX]

That PA Advanced Micro is pretty awesome. Amazing for the price. My friend had it on his 10/22 for our latest range outing, which included my Aimpoint T1, his Aimpoint T2, and my buddy's PRO. We all agreed that it was shockingly nice. The TRS-25 occupies a considerably lower price-point and is in its own right certainly well worth the money, but that upgrade to the PA Advanced Micro is, IMVeryHO, if at all doable, going to be worth it.

Another consideration for you would be instead of a different AR, to just pick up a separate upper, and to funnel the savings into a really good scope and Q/D mount combo. This way, not only will you have a really good varminter/paper-puncher, you'll also have some really good glass that can literally travel between your long-guns.

With the small aperture on your Ruger, in all honesty, that should not be a problem outdoors - if it's looking visibly out-of-round for you, I'd have that cross-checked by other shooters, particularly those experienced with ARs, to insure that's not a true mechanical defect before you pursue this any further. The larger aperture is really for low-light (for close-range, a "shooting out of the notch" technique of placing the front post on top of the rear aperture, can be successfully utilized; or, alternatively, look at Paul Howe's CSAT Combat Sights - http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/sights/rear-sights/ar-15-m16-csat-combat-sight-prod26948.aspx).

The trigger, as WRBuchanan noted, should get better simply over time, but if you want to jump directly into an upgrade, the ALG triggers as well as the BCM are extremely price-effective, particularly if what you're looking for is a single-stage setup. I almost prefer my ALG ACT over my Geissele SSA and SSA-E......

As for that pin backing out, indeed, I would be upset, too, but as with all things mechanical, well, you know the old saying.

From my very limited experience with Ruger's C/S, their reputation of being among the top in this industry does hold true, and in-reality, isn't that part of what we pay for? Heck, my Aimpoint took a crap after just two training classes and a few day's worth on the range...Aimpoint sent it on a vacation to Sweden, and it literally came back a new "person" (they replaced it with a new one as it could not be fixed).

And the K-T? Having recently shot one, IMHO, it's truly quite under-rated. I'm gonna pick one up, myself.