a few questions for the more experienced

Discussion in 'P-3AT' started by inception, Oct 31, 2007.

  1. inception

    inception New Member

    1
    Oct 31, 2007
    Hello,

    I just purchased my first P3AT yesterday and went out and shot a hundred rounds or so through it and I love the gun, but I did have a question about shooting it.

    This is my first real encounter with what some would call a "mousegun" and I am not sure yet how to get accurate with this. I had large hands and this gun was a bit rough on them, but I was able to manage the recoil and keep it controlled. No misfires or limp wristing induced mis loads. My main concern is, with such a heavy, long trigger, all my shots are consistently down and to the right. Even when trying to compensate just by aiming up and left, i yield the same result.

    I know this trigger pull is great for safety and I would really like to keep it that way. I have read some of the posts about modifying it, but I am not really comfortable doing that, nor would I want the trigger to be more easily accidentally pulled.

    I tried all types of different holding with my hands, moved my trigger finger more into the trigger, and also just using the tip of my finger, and I'm a bit bewildered as to why my hand just consistently pulls that direction. It actually made me feel a bit depressed! If it weren't for doing so well with a Glock 19 at the range, I would have probably just started crying or blame the sights on the gun.

    So, I know you all are a wealth of information, so I figured I would come here and seek advice. Is this just something that will take practice to get over? Thanks for all your help!
     
  2. cclem700

    cclem700 New Member

    Oct 31, 2006

  3. Bobo

    Bobo Well-Known Member Supporter

    Jun 13, 2005
    I had the same problem because my hands are large and my fingers are long. Here's what I did to solve the problem. Basically three things; magazine finger extensions, deeper backstrap, and slip-on grip. The information on this is in this post and next one...

    Magazine Finger Extension Base Plates for the Kel-Tec P-3AT:

    The Bersa (smooth) and Scherer (textured) style extensions need no modifications.
    The NAA style extensions must be modified slightly.
    Instructions: http://www.geocities.com/PocketGuns/P32ext.html
    Another option is the Kel-Tec 1-Round Magazine Extension which extends the magazine and also allows loading an extra round.
    ==============================================

    You can get Bersa and Scherer here:
    http://www.yourgunparts.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=80&osCsid=f990bfb7dd63606aa2475a9c6148d347

    Bersa (direct) here:
    http://www.bersafirearmsusa.com/parts_380lt_sat.php
    Part #48

    Scherer here:
    http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1177893884
    or here:
    http://www.e-gunparts.com/DisplayAd.asp?chrProductSKU=981590B&chrSuperSKU=981590&MC=

    NAA (direct) here:
    http://www.naaminis.com/guardacc.html#parts
    Two Finger Extension Base Plates for all Guardian magazines: $10.00
    #MZ-FPK Two Finger Extension Base

    Kel-Tec 1-Round Magazine Extension (direct) here:
    http://www.kel-tec.com/p3ataccessories.html
     
  4. Bobo

    Bobo Well-Known Member Supporter

    Jun 13, 2005
    Slip-On Grips for the Kel-Tec P-3AT

    Hogue, Pachmayr, Glaser, and Butler Creek make slip-on grips that fit the P-3AT. They are all a bit different. Some may need trimming. Glaser also makes “pads” that stick to the front and/or back straps to soften and slightly enlarge the grip. AGRIP makes a pre-cut stick-on grip.

    Hogue HandAll, Jr
    These have finger grooves, are thinner at the front and back straps, have slight palm swells, and are textured on the sides.
    http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/productdetail.aspx?p=6938&s=

    Pachmayr, Model 4
    These have finger grooves, are the same thickness all around, and are textured all over.
    http://www.pachmayr.com/pachmayr/slipons.htm

    Glaser
    These grips have no finger grooves, are the same thickness all around, and are smooth all over.
    The pads are self-adhering and can be removed easily.
    http://www.aglaser.com/grips/

    Butler Creek, Small (no longer manufactured but may still be available)
    These have no finger grooves, the same thickness all around and a bit thinner than Glaser and Pachmayr, and are textured on the sides.
    http://www.ultout.com/butlercreek-pistolgrips.htm

    AGRIP
    http://www.ccwsupply.biz/AgripPage.htm

    Or you can make your own:
    One good thing about doing it this way is that the material is thin and you can experiment by trying a different number of layers. Some bike tubes have ribbed areas, so you can make a ribbed or smooth grip.
    I got a couple of tubes free - went to a local bike shop and asked for any bad ones they were throwing away.
    The 20 x 1.75 - 2.125 worked best for me.
    http://www.ktrange.com/articles/a7/a7.html

    My gun with four layers of bike tube:
    [​IMG]
    With a Pachmayr:
    [​IMG]
    With a Hogue:
    [​IMG]
    BTW, you may notice that I also added some depth to the backstrap under the slip-ons.
    This can be beneficial for people with large hands or long fingers (as in my case).

    I tried foam strips first but the slip-on grip seemed to compress the foam over time and as a result the grip lost the added depth. I ended up with a combination of plastic tubing, bike tube, and slip-on grip.

    I used three layers of 5/8" O.D. x 7/16" I.D. flexible plastic tubing, cut into 1/2" wide strips a bit longer than the backstrap, glued the strips together with Goop adhesive and clamped it until dry. Then I aligned the glued tubing along the backstrap and put on two layers of bike tube then the slip-on grip on over that. Lastly, I trimmed the excess plastic tubing off at the bottom of the grip.

    Using strips of material under the slip-on and/or bike tube is kind of neat because you can experiment with different numbers of layers of material and at the same time you don't permanently alter the gun.

    The first photo shows the gun with three layers of tubing and four layers of bike tube (actually my second attempt).

    The second photo which was actually my first attempt shows three strips of 1/4" thick foam with a Pachmayr grip over the foam. Notice how the foam has compressed (more at the top where grip and recoil cause more pressure, but quite a bit at the bottom also).

    The last photo shows my gun as it is now with three layers of tubing, two layers of bike tube, and a Hogue slip-on (I like the finger grooves).

    You will notice that the overall length of the gun isn't any deeper than it was before the modification due to the depth of the beavertail on the grip.
     
  5. Welcome to KTOG Inception.

    All of the above may help, but I was wondering... at what distance are you shooting?

    The KT 3AT is actually a very accurate gun for what it is, but remember, it is a self defense short barreled auto.

    From my point of view, if I can get COM at 20 feet, I am happy.  And the 3At gives me that even with one weak hand shots.
     
  6. praetorian

    praetorian New Member

    23
    Oct 25, 2007
    First of all, as stated above this is a short ranged weapon. I usually set the target somewhere around 20feet. Allot of the accuracy game comes with practice, especially if this is your first mouse gun. Also just a thought i shoot mine better when i "point aim". Next time just try shooting focusing on the target with both eyes open. I shoot more accuratly with the little guns that way for some reason. I would try just getting used to the pistol or other methods of shooting before buying other add ons...
     
  7. unit1069

    unit1069 New Member

    717
    Jan 9, 2007
    In my state anything beyond 21 feet and you might have to jump through legal hoops to defend yourself in a self-defense shooting.

    The pistol dimensions, caliber and range limitations of the KT .380 seem to confine its optimum use to close-in situations. God forbid I ever have to defend myself but if I do I hope I have the presence of mind to not waste valuable ammo aiming at an attacker beyond that distance unless it's absolutely necessary.

    I've read that most situations innocent victims are involved in happen within a 15-second time frame in relatively close contact.
     
  8. DoubleTap

    DoubleTap New Member

    69
    Sep 4, 2007
    I would personally be very nervous about lightening up the trigger on any firearm I was going to carry for self-defense. If worse comes to worse and you’re actually force to use it, some prosecutor is going to take that ‘hair trigger’ (which is exactly how it’s going to be portrayed in court) and run with it. Just a thought. :-/