...A 3rd Gen! Second Strike!?

Discussion in 'P-3AT' started by ScatMelee, Apr 29, 2008.

  1. ScatMelee

    ScatMelee New Member

    122
    Aug 17, 2007
    i don't know if it's possible, but i would love for the p3at to have second strike capability!  does anybody know for sure if this was considered and rejected? ergo grips would be a nice touch too.

    .... ;)

    post any other ideas for the 3rd gen, i'm sure the kel-tec people are reading!
     
  2. doubloon

    doubloon New Member

    Jan 5, 2008
    Houston-ish, TX
    Re: ....A 3rd Gen! Second Strik

    I wouldn't turn it down but I think the second strike is overrated. I'm more likely to rack and clear a non-firing round than pull the trigger again. Second strike is good for snap caps though.

    I'd take the slide catch over the second strike.
     

  3. Nakanokalronin

    Nakanokalronin Member

    898
    Apr 7, 2007
    Re: ....A 3rd Gen! Second Strik

    Slide catch would be better since its not wise to dry fire these guys to much but a second strike is not a bad idea. If your trying to put rounds on target as fast as possible in a tense situation you will just be pulling that trigger....like you life depended on it.
     
  4. rcmodel

    rcmodel New Member

    Feb 6, 2005
    Eastern Kansas
    I could care less about "second strike" capability.
    If you have a mis-fire, it's time for the "Tap-Rack-Bang" drill.

    What I would really like to see fixed is the snap-off-the-hammer-block design defect.

    The K-T is the only firearm I know of that can be put out of action by short-stroking the trigger!

    It should either go into free-wheeling mode like most auto pistols & revolvers, or lock up tighter then a bulls patootie and not do anything when you short stroke the trigger.

    If you mess up and snap off the hammer block, the only fix is a two-hand slide rack to get back in action.

    And that there just ain't right!

    You might not have two hands available while fighting off an assailant.

    A short trigger stroke should be an automatic reset by just releasing and pulling it again, like all other guns.

    rcmodel
     
  5. joje

    joje New Member

    213
    Nov 1, 2007
    1+ on what rc said. i've fired tens of thousands of centerfire rounds in my guns and i have yet to experience a primer that did not ignite on the first strike. the chances of this ending up jamming your semiauto in a fight is pretty slim compared to all other things that can go wrong. add to that that in a semi auto a second strike does not mean a fresh round as in a revolver but on a primer thats already known to be bad. i would never trade the light trigger pull of a safe action type mechanism for such a miniscule reliability improvement.
     
  6. halfmoonclip

    halfmoonclip New Member

    71
    Sep 17, 2004
    As an old wheel gun shooter, I get off the trigger before I get back on. It's possible to skip chambers in a Smith if you short stroke.
    I can see how folks used to the short reset on Glocks could get jammed up with a KT. I think RC makes a good point.

    As regards second strike, you might recall that the original KelTec doublestack 9mm had second strike, and the absolute trigger pull from hell. If you are hoping for double strike, hope for better than that.
    Moon
     
  7. toddmog

    toddmog New Member

    225
    Jul 8, 2007
    Re: ....A 3rd Gen! Second Strik

    my thoughts exactly
     
  8. Packer

    Packer Banned

    May 14, 2005
      I think you WILL see the slide lock/release on a 3rd gen. I don't think we'll see KT fixing the hammer-block-snap though. They are invested in this trigger now in three pistols (4 when the 2G P11 arrives) and they are not likely to change it. In fact, one of the reasons FOR a 2G P11 is to make it drop-safer with the hammer block.

      An AFTER market solution for P3AT/P32/PF9 IS possible though. (And, of course it also makes it double-strike.) This requires the total removal of hammer block, the IFP mod to make it safe again, the LHS mod to lighten the trigger back down, and a new/modified hammer and trigger bar.

      Without the "half c o c k" of the hammer block--The trigger pull ends up somewhat longer. Replacing modded parts with stock parts reverts the pistol back to normal. I really never thought anyone but ME would be crazy enough interested in changing to double-strike.

      The liability would be too high for somebody to sell this though. If there is enough interest, then one of these days when I get more time, I'll write up the mod for the adventurous to try.

    Packer.
     
  9. PshootR

    PshootR Banned

    Apr 1, 2005
    About 2 hours ago I was about to make a very similar post to 2PP's above, but decided that it was too improbable that anyone else would be interested. I had thought that an entirely new hammer would be necessary though. With the hammer resting all the way forward against the back of the slide the trigger bar would have to be able to pick up the cocking lug on the hammer. Also, the trigger stroke must not be increased to the point that it is inconsistent with the size of the rather small trigger guard. I for one would prefer a pure DAO design like the P-11 rather than the hybrid type popularized by Glock.
     
  10. dvdivx

    dvdivx New Member

    8
    Feb 23, 2008
    If they are going to add something it should be a grip safety like the XD45. I'm in the market for a small gun for my wife but am amazed that none of the small guns have a safety except for the Bersa CC. The Bersa seems to have it's own problems though and is more heavy.
     
  11. PshootR

    PshootR Banned

    Apr 1, 2005
  12. TxCajun

    TxCajun Administrator Staff Member Supporter

    Sep 7, 2004
    Texas
    IMO, putting a saftey on a DAO pistol is like putting a safety on a revolver. Actually, since the P3 has no hammer to snag and is totally drop safe, they are even safer than a revolver.  :-?
     
  13. learfxr

    learfxr New Member

    57
    Dec 21, 2007
    I hate grip safeties, and will most likely never buy a XD. I would not buy a KT with a grip safety. The only safety I need is my pocket holster to help keep my finger out of the way til it needs to be there.
     
  14. spike87

    spike87 New Member

    29
    Mar 29, 2008
    Has anyone actually heard any news about a 3rd gen?? Or is this just wishfull thinking?? How long have they been producing the 2nd gen?
     
  15. PshootR

    PshootR Banned

    Apr 1, 2005
    IMO, putting a saftey on a DAO pistol is like putting a safety on a revolver.  Actually, since the P3 has no hammer to snag and is totally drop safe, they are even safer than a revolver.  :-?
    [/quote]
    S&W saw the "need" in 1887. Pic is of the modern re-creation on the original.
    [​IMG]
    http://www.smithwessonhandguns.com/...nd_Guns_Pistols_Smith__Wesson_40_Lemon_S.aspx
     
  16. ScatMelee

    ScatMelee New Member

    122
    Aug 17, 2007
    i would also LOVE to see the "snap-off-the-hammer-block design defect" fixed, but let's just say it can't be done for some reason.  second strike would still offer a solution to that problem there, admittedly not on the first try!  see, if you short stroke the trigger (guilty as charged) you can just give it another tug and it should go bang!  this was the whole reason i wanted second strike to begin with.  it sounds like second strike is a real and proven possibility acording to Two Pistol Packer.

    pleeeeeease mr. Two Pistol Packer, post this mod!!!

    i haven't heard any bad ideas yet, except maybe the external safety in my opinion.  however i do know many people are looking for this feature (i'm not sure why, legal issues?), so making it an OPTION would be very shrewd from a business point of view! by the way, this post's full name was "stick it to ruger w/ a 3rd gen! second strike!?" but it was shortened.  the reason i called it that was to encite kel-tec into doing something to offset the loss of business to the lcp (and make me a real sweet gun!).  besides, if kel-tec doesn't address these issues, i'm sure ruger will with THEIR "2nd gen".

    i have not heard any news of a 3rd gen myself, so it's just wishfull thinking for now. please correct me if i'm wrong.  and keep the ideas coming!
     
  17. Packer

    Packer Banned

    May 14, 2005
      The mod is only feasible with either a re-machined hammer or an outright new hammer. You can ONLY have either a second strike with no hammer block, or a hammer block with short stroke. There is no in between. Even with a new hammer, removing the hammer block will make the P3AT EXTREMELY UNSAFE unless you also add the IFP/LHS mod.

      I'm pretty sure KT will produce a new P3AT with a different--Gator grip. If I was them, I would also add a slide/stop/lock. IMO, they will leave the trigger the same.

      Now MY idea of a third gen P3AT would include a stiffer aluminum grip to lessen LW possibilities, a 10 round flush-fit double column mag, double-strike wide steel trigger with 3 pound pull, slide stop/release and of course a steel mag catch.

    Packer.
     
  18. pocketgun

    pocketgun New Member

    May 4, 2005
    A huge +1 from me on everything he said.
     
  19. virtual-rj

    virtual-rj New Member

    Jul 22, 2007
    Houston, TX
    pg-glad to see you back around, my good friend
     
  20. pocketgun

    pocketgun New Member

    May 4, 2005
    Thanks rj, I have missed my friends from the forums. I am hoping to be around a little more often.