3rd Gel Test: .32 Underwood Cavitator +P vs XTP

Discussion in 'P-32' started by P11octo, Oct 10, 2016.

  1. P11octo

    P11octo New Member

    47
    Jul 6, 2014
    The Military Arms Channel (MAC) performed a bare gel test of Underwood's .32 ACP 50 grain Cavitator +P compared to Hornady XTP and posted it on Youtube today (Oct 10, 2016). He also fired a 230 gr .45 ACP round into the same gel block, which provides an interesting comparison. Be sure to check out his concluding comments beginning at 16:47 in the video.
    [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMKYal5Tles[/ame]

    The test also included Underwood's 85 grain Cavitator in .30 Carbine vs Hornady's 110 grain FTX in an M1 Carbine, but that won't be discussed in this post.

    Test Protocol
    - Bare 10% Gelatin provided by Doctor Kote
    - Mauser 1934 with a 3.4" barrel
    - Velocity was not measured.
    - Wound channel was measured and shown in good detail.

    Penetration and Expansion Results
    ............................................... Penetration
    Underwood 50 gr +P ............. 18.5"
    Hornady 60 gr XTP ................ 15"
    Underwood Spec .................... 14.75"
    (from 2.7" P32)

    - The XTP expanded fully, but wasn't measured. I estimate .40" - .45".

    His comments about the Underwood cavitator ammo performance compared to the XTP:
    - "Temporary wound cavity was definitely more pronounced."
    - "Penetration was 3.5" - 3.75" more."
    - "It did more soft tissue damage in the temporary stretch cavity."

    Reliability
    All ammo functioned 100%.

    Comments
    These bare gel penetration results are very close to that obtained by FourGuysGuns, which was discussed in the thread at http://www.thektog.org/forum/f86/2nd-gel-test-32-underwood-cavitator-sp-p-266641/

    Their CZ VZ61 4.5" barrel achieved 19" penetration -- comparable to the 18.5" from this Mauser's 3.4" barrel. Interestingly, their .30 Carbine test result with an M1 was also virtually identical to MAC's recorded penetration of 24" - 25".

    Since MAC's test correlates extremely well with FourGuysGuns, it gives additional support to both FourGuysGuns test and Jeremy S. tests with the shorter 2.4" barrel Beretta Tomcat. Jeremy's test was discussed in this thread http://www.thektog.org/forum/f86/gel-test-32-underwood-cavitator-vs-gold-dot-vs-fmj-266374/

    The gel depth penetration of the Underwood Cavitator ammo from the Beretta Tomcat is comparable to FMJ's and 4" - 8" deeper than fully expanded JHP's from 2.4" - 2.7" pistols. Width of wound track is larger than fully expanded JHP's and much, much larger than FMJ's.

    IMHO, this is all further confirmation that the Lehigh Xtreme Cavitator bullet, particularly in the Underwood SP and +P loadings, represents a very significant improvement in .32 ACP self defense ammo.
     
  2. JMag1

    JMag1 Member

    59
    Apr 14, 2015
    Excellent. Thanks for sharing.
     

  3. Dukes4Aces

    Dukes4Aces New Member

    71
    Aug 19, 2016
    Nice and same above ∆∆∆
     
  4. FFocus

    FFocus Member

    15
    Oct 16, 2016
    Top shelf info for us KT P32ers this will make one of my favorites even more of a favorite for cc.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2016
  5. TheKuduKing

    TheKuduKing Member

    80
    Aug 10, 2013
    Having spent the better part of 25 years involved in LE firearms training and selection, I'm not seeing that conclusion at all from what was presented.

    The temporary wound cavity with a low-velocity round (<2000 fps) is not ballistically significant from a wounding aspect. Most human tissue is elastic and snaps back with little damage from it. There are numerous studies from pathlogists on this, I'm not going to cite them here, they are readily available on the web. (Google "Martin Fackler ballistics" and "Dr Roberts ballistics" for a starter)

    In gelatin testing, permanent crush cavity and penetration are the only significant measurable effects with low velocity (<2000 fps) rounds.

    Yet, the only "increase in wound channel" being observed in this video with the exotic round, is with the temporary wound cavity. And that observation is only being concluded from viewing a slow motion video of the impact. Not actual measurement, but watching a gelatin block bounce around. The permament crush wound tracks are virtually the same between the XTP and the exotic.

    In addition, in the test depicted in the video, the XTP penetrated more than sufficiently in addition to expanding. I note FMJ - which penetrates even more and in actual shootings tends to tumble inside the body and create a larger permanent cavity - was not tested in this video. With a low velocity and energy round such as .32 Auto, quibbling over hairs is not particularly useful.

    Practice with the pistol using your carry ammo is far more useful. So...at 1/3 the price of the exotic, I would rather buy the XTP and be able to practice more with the pistol.

    Or at 1/4 the price, I could buy even more FMJ, which has a known track record of reliability and performance in actual shootings, and practice even more.

    IMHO, not impressed.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2016
  6. JMag1

    JMag1 Member

    59
    Apr 14, 2015
    Ran a box of said Underwood ammo through my gen 1 P32 today with no hiccups and excellent accuracy, FWIW.
     
  7. lewis142

    lewis142 New Member

    27
    Nov 20, 2016
    Still on the fence about this. Still using FMJ.
     
  8. Spokane2303

    Spokane2303 Member

    30
    Nov 23, 2016
    Does this new "super round" have any rimlock possibilities?
     
  9. CJP32

    CJP32 Active Member

    Jul 24, 2008
    The overall length is between a round nose fmj and a jhp IIRC. I can't say for sure but I don't think it would be a problem.
     
  10. lewis142

    lewis142 New Member

    27
    Nov 20, 2016
    Ok. Curiosity got the best of me. Waiting on one box standard and one +p. We'll see how it works.
     
  11. FFocus

    FFocus Member

    15
    Oct 16, 2016
    Got a box of each let me know how your standard & +P went Lewis.
     
  12. lewis142

    lewis142 New Member

    27
    Nov 20, 2016
    Shot one mag of each. Functioned flawless. Seemed to be accurate. No scientific testing by any means. I just wanted to make sure they cycled. 8 rnds of the +p is what I will carry. Couldn't tell the difference shooting the two. There is no markings on the cases to distinguish the two either. The +p bullets appear to be set in the case slightly more.
     
  13. Newbe64

    Newbe64 Active Member

    103
    Feb 18, 2006
    Question:
    Per the Underwood webpage: Ballistics Information - Muzzle Velocity: 1100 fps & Penetration: 14 3/4 inches. So that's out of a P32 length barrel?
     
  14. CJP32

    CJP32 Active Member

    Jul 24, 2008
    They listed several barrel lengths in the post you quoted. ;)

    I double checked underwood site and they don't list the barrel length for their test. I know they claim to use real world guns for their tests. I'm guessing if you contact them they will let you know.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2016
  15. FFocus

    FFocus Member

    15
    Oct 16, 2016
    Thanks Lewis 142- feed issue was something I was concerned about.
    A+ new dimensional defensive ammo for sure in my book for my P-32s.
     
  16. Newbe64

    Newbe64 Active Member

    103
    Feb 18, 2006
    The 14 3/4" penetration is out a Tomcat/P32 length barrel but that high a velocity is probably from a slightly longer barrel. No biggie, just curious. I've got a few boxes of Fiocchi fmj to run first.

    My tan over tan P32 is in route and scheduled for delivery this Friday. Never had a P32 or any 32 before so I'm anxious to try it out. My prior Kel-Tecs were a P-11 and a P3AT and both of those are long gone.
     
  17. Dukes4Aces

    Dukes4Aces New Member

    71
    Aug 19, 2016
    You won't be disappointed-you got a good deal and cool color. Some say the "newer" ones don't need fluff&bluff- I did polish my feed ramp and ejection port, painted blade and made 2 white dots on rear And used fine grit to smooth down the grip. Never had a one malfunction w REM & PMC FMJ. I run the PMC's because they are the only ones I can reliably hand cycle in a failure to fire scenario. Enjoy Cheers. J
     
  18. steve76

    steve76 Member

    57
    Dec 13, 2012
    Bullhead City, AZ.
    Please correct me if wrong, I thought the P32 was not rated for +P loads or at least said somewhere, not recommended.
     
  19. Newbe64

    Newbe64 Active Member

    103
    Feb 18, 2006
    I'm a rookie here but, there is no SAAMI spec for 32+P loads so no pistol is rated 32+P. From numbers I've seen most +P 32 loads are a small step for standard pressure of around 20,500 psi and can be safely fired in 32 pistols in good working order.
     
  20. CJP32

    CJP32 Active Member

    Jul 24, 2008
    That's the way I understand it too. I think their +P in 32acp just means it's loaded to the upper limit of 32acp standards.

    Keep in mind that most American ammo companies load 32acp pretty light. I think it's to avoid damaging older guns. That's also why European brands like S&B or Fiocchi are so highly recommended.