[riverkeeper]

From Warriortalk.com

? -- What does it feel like to shot by an airsoft?

Ans -- Very much like .380 Winchester Silvertips

I liked it but I use AE FMJ and Gold Dots.

 

[rcmodel]

Now, that there just ain't right.
I don't care who ya are.

What is this Warriortalk.com you speak of, some Mall-Ninja hangout?

rcmodel

 

[Braden]

You've got to admit it's kind of funny. ;D

 

[adamky]

Isn't .380 Silvertips the round that bounced OFF of the denim in one of the box-o-truth tests??

What's the deal with this round? How can they sell something that won't penetrate denim??

 

[kenzo]

i wudn't want to be anywhere near the "business end" of this round or any 380 for that matter...

...i don't believe these rounds are a top performer in most "un-scientific" tests around the internet...but do not kid yourselves...VERY DEADLY

...these are also my "go to" werewolf round ;D

 

[rcmodel]

Isn't .380 Silvertips the round that bounced OFF of the denim in one of the box-o-truth tests???

I believe that was a Mag-Tec .32 ACP that bounced off.
Not a Winchester Silver-Tip .380.

rcmodel

 

[RAT76]

You've got to admit it's kind of funny.   ;D

Not really.

Jim, who carries Silvertips in his P3AT.

 

[Packer]

I may or may not have killed a big Raccoon with one silvertip from a P3AT, but if I did, it was through and through and very devastating.

Packer.

 

[Deepmine]

Weren't the FBI using Silvertips in that Fld shootout that went badly for them>

DP

 

[z71bill]

April 1986 FBI shootout - After you read this try and imagine what the outcome would have been if the FBI would have been shooting P-3AT's.

http://www.thegunzone.com/11april86.html

 

[wyo-man]

April 1986 FBI shootout - After you read this try and imagine what the outcome would have been if the FBI would have been shooting P-3AT's.

http://www.thegunzone.com/11april86.html

Wow!!! Very interesting reading.

wyo-man

I have a son in law enforcement........

 

[Packer]

It's reading stuff like this that makes me wonder if I should abandon interleaving my P3AT with JHP/FMJ and go to ALL FMJ?

Packer.

 

[z71bill]

Take notice that the FBI shootout was in Florida in April - although they do not indicate if anyone was wearing a heavy coat / jacket - I would guess not.

The Winchester SilverTip did get slammed and took part of the initial blame - but after further review I think there were many other issues that were at fault.  

I shot a couple of boxes of SilverTips in my P-3AT - they always functioned - I still have 1/2 a box left "just in case".

My wife was asking me to "please" find a better location to store my ammo cans - and then threw in a not so nice  - DO YOU ALL OF THIS!  >  

I said bla bla bla - and then added - no matter what happens I will be ready!

So she asks - what if we get attacked by a werewolf  - do you have any silver bullets?  We had just watched the movie Silver Bullet - (with Gary Busey & the kid in the wheel chair - I would give the movie 1 thumb up)

Glad I had some SilverTips left over!

 

[Packer]

  If none of the 9mm ammo used by the FBI penetrated deeply enough--Forget about any weaker .380 JHP out of the short-barreled P3AT doing the job.

Out of a 5 inch barrel, JHP might be a viable option, but velocity from a 2 3/4" (really 2 inch) barrel is too low. FMJ, on the other hand penetrates quite well from the .380 short barrel.

Packer.

 

[kenzo]

  It's reading stuff like this that makes me wonder if I should abandon interleaving my P3AT with JHP/FMJ and go to ALL FMJ?

Packer.

yup... +1

...basically expansion WITHOUT penitration = NO KILL...

i'm beginning testing on some old & new rounds (for me) with a new "mini" 2nd Gen "Flyer Hood Mod" hopefully today...

 

[wgoble]

If none of the 9mm ammo used by the FBI penetrated deeply enough--Forget about any weaker .380 JHP out of the short-barreled P3AT doing the job.

Out of a 5 inch barrel, JHP might be a viable option, but velocity from a 2 3/4" (really 2 inch) barrel is too low. FMJ, on the other hand penetrates quite well from the .380 short barrel.

Packer.

THANK -You !

 

[rcmodel]

You also have to keep in mind that Winchester Silvertip JHP, and all other brands of JHP, was a totally different animal in 1986 then it is in 2007.
JHP pistol ammo development was still in it's infancy back then.

There have been vast, across-the-board improvements in HP pistol bullet performance since the Miami shoot-out.

If you missed the link in the shoot-out story, you need to also read this:
http://www.thegunzone.com/miami-ammo.html

rcmodel

 

[adamky]

I believe that was a Mag-Tec .32 ACP that bounced off.
Not a Winchester Silver-Tip .380.

rcmodel

Yes, my fault. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot26_2.htm

 

[Packer]

Okay, let's try this again: Ballistic Gelatin is simply a TEST medium. Different body parts equal different thicknesses of gelatin. For example, it has been stated that SKIN equals 4 inches of gelatin.

So if SKIN is 4 inches, what is bone? If a bullet has to pass through an arm bone, a rib and a chest cavity to reach and then PENETRATE the heart--How much gelatin is that? Twelve inches does not sound like enough.

I don't test in gelatin. I test in wetpacks. It has been my experience that .380 JHP does not penetrate anywhere NEAR as far as the more powerful 9mm JHP. Tops is the equivalent of 10 inches of gelatin. I just don't see it even going THROUGH an arm bone. (Skin entrance =4 inches, Skin exit = 4 inches--Surely bone is tougher, thereby = more inches of gelatin, than skin.)

If your .380 JHP expands to the max, but it does not get to something vital, the BG is NOT going to stop. If your gun is not going to STOP the BG, your survival is in doubt.

I'll take the .380 FMJ. I KNOW it will penetrate.

Packer.

 

[rcmodel]

That is another fallacy of ballistics jell and other test mediums.
It is not nearly the same thing as living tissue & bone, so "approximations" have to be made.

Skin isn't that hard to penetrate, it is just very elastic.

It may be that the bullet has to stretch it into the body cavity 4" before it makes a hole through it.
I don't know.

But if that is true, you could say the bullet is already 4" deep inside the body cavity before it goes through the skin so it wouldn't affect penetration that much, and shouldn't be included in the calculation, especially twice.

So, 4" penetration in ballistic gel = getting through the skin? Personally, I don't buy it.

Reason being, I had a few #8 shotgun pellets dug out of my Bird-dogs hide one time after a friend tagged him by accident.

They sure as heck went through the skin, but they sure as heck weren't 4" deep either!

Another thing to keep in mind is that the normal adult males chest cavity contains about 1 1/2 gallons of (are you ready for this) Air!

How many inches of ballistic gel is that equal too?

rcmodel