.380 and the BG

Discussion in 'P-3AT' started by WhizzBang, Dec 29, 2009.

  1. WhizzBang

    WhizzBang New Member

    1
    Dec 29, 2009
    The general concensus of self defense theories seems to be to just dump a clip at the COM and alternately run/hide/pray/die. Not good. As so many pro's in hunting tell us, shot placement is everything, and the P3AT is fully capable of accuracy at typical defensive distances. I believe that the same type of logic used in defensive martial arts can be used very effectively with a small caliber handgun. After all, all you want to do is stay alive.

    Martial arts fighters, whether barefist, or armed, aim precisely for nerve centers. Two of the best centers are the groin, and just below the sternum at the solar plexus. While bringing the P3AT up from its holster, start with a groin shot or two. The recoil pulls the barrel up for the next shots, at the solar plex. If the BG isn't on the ground singing soprano yet, you still have two shots left for neck/head.

    The larger calibers have brute force advantage. With the .380, if you plan to defend yourself with it, place your shots where they will drop the BG instantly, and remove his will to attack you. For this, the .380 is more than adequate. Practice with profile targets only. Very few BG's have bullseye targets stapled on them.
     
  2. angel71rs

    angel71rs Active Member

    145
    Oct 21, 2009
    IMO, in a SHTF situation, I'd be happy to put rounds into CM, never mind precisely calculating shot placement. I say this because of videos I've seen of LEOs in shootouts where the LEOs put rounds anywhere but the BG. One in particular, the pavement in front of the BG was taking lots of punishment, you could clearly see the puffs of debris from the rounds hitting.

    So my thinking is if professionals who train for these situations, who regularly are put in situations where they have to have their guard completely up, end up having a hard time putting rounds on point when hot lead is coming their way, am I going to be so cool and calculating that I can say I will put rounds here 1st, then there, etc? I'm thinking no.

    Only guy I know that shot someone close up and personal (guard tower in VN) said he was scared chitless, just put rounds into the guys (2 trying to sneak in at night) as quick as he could. Even at a distance of only a few feet, his rounds hit them all over the place. Shoulder, neck, chest, butt. I consider that what you could most likely expect in a close up situation. They are moving, you are moving, adrenaline pumping means your weapon is probably not going to be nice and stable in your shaking hand.

    Like I said, I'd be happy just to put rounds into CM and hope that's good enough to get it done.
     

  3. Bobo

    Bobo Active Member Supporter

    Jun 13, 2005
    Personally I have problem with wasting valuable ammo on groin shots...
    If your opponent is wearing a longish coat or jacket or even a long untucked shirt you can't really tell where the groin is.
    In fact, even with loose pants you can't tell very well, never mind the down-around-the-knees gang banger pants you very well might be shooting at.
    The only way you could get an accurate shot at a groin is if the BG was in a tight bathing suit, speedos, tight jeans, or his birthday suit.

    Bobo
     
  4. low-side

    low-side New Member

    96
    Jan 9, 2010
    Like Angel71RS said, the best place to aim is center of mass, right in the middle of the chest and just below the sternum. It's well known that a perfect shot is almost impossible in a high stress situation, but if you are well practiced you will probably get close and that is where all the plumbing is. I personally wouldn't try a head shot unless the BG was so close it was tucked under his chin.
     
  5. JB

    JB Guest

    I like using silhouette targets just to see what kind of shot placement I am getting on a human-sized target when presenting and firing quickly. However, I read an article that argued (convincingly) that small bullseye-type targets might be better training tools. No, you aren't going to be taking careful aim at the '10' ring or anything in a SD situation but you will probably be using either point shooting or flash sight picture to try and hit a relatively small, moving target area on the attacker. The argument was that, in a real SD situation, an assailant probably isn't going to stand still, completely upright and facing you while you carefully put your shots into specific areas. Instead, the author opined, hitting a viable area under stress with movement might be more like trying to keep your shots within the 8 inch (or smaller) circle of a bullseye target.
     
  6. billjohnso20

    billjohnso20 Active Member

    Dec 7, 2008
    COM covers a large area---too large. I practice bullseye and heart shots. Even a 22LR to the heart will stop the BG in short order. It is all about placement. Hit the Aorta, Pulmonary artery, or the Vena Cava  and watch his eyes roll back in his head. A heart shot is easier than a head or groin shot hands-down. If the BG is quartering or leaning toward you, you have a chance of hitting the artery in the top of the shoulder if your high and all heart if not.

    Too bad there are so many macho-men out there who are caught up in magic bullet theories. You know the type. It's better to be unarmed than have a .380 in your pocket, only 147gr 9mm will do the job, the 45ACP will kill a guy if you blow his toe off. [smiley=lolk.gif]I belong to other forums and sometimes it gets so deep you have to roll up your britches legs. :D Don't get me wrong. Carry the biggest the situation allows. But don't be gullible enough to believe the well debunked junk science of the magic bullet.

    The below articles are from a forum I frequent but must take in small doses. Once you've read these you'll understand why. Beware, testosterone is at lethal levels. Some people miss the point altogether on what mouse guns were designed for and their purpose in SD situations. Many also never see the need for a BUG. I hope Murphy never visits them in a real SD situation. Having a gun fail when your life depends on it will scare you senseless. I know that from experience. No BUG increases your chances of dying astronomically. Remember, all guns are machines. Thus, they will all fail one day. Murphy guarantees it.

    http://concealedcarryforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9342
    http://concealedcarryforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11911