2nd gen 3at problems/concerns/possible damage...

Discussion in 'P-3AT' started by prototype7, Jul 9, 2009.

  1. prototype7

    prototype7 New Member

    9
    Jun 30, 2009
    First of all let me say,GREAT SITE! I am so happy this forum is here and I hope I can be a contribution to the community. Next let me say that I had always been on the fence about this gun but once I got it home and it was mine... I am in love with this gun! Such a great little package that I have NO reason not to carry it.

    However... I think I may have one of the problem children I read about. Why oh why couldn't I get one of the ones that perform flawlessly from day one till death!? Anyhow, I'm hoping you vets can help me here. I have tried the search feature but for some reason it's hanging up on me. I know it's always preffered to find things on one's own but I am really kind of worried about this one. I have a few questions and any help is appreciated. Just point me to the right thread and I'll be happy to read it myself. Just need a little direction is all.

    First question is the most important... I think my gun is hurting itself. I have a few images attatched that show damage that was NOT there when I bought it. This happened after only 42 rounds! I know that the gun is super dirty but it hasn't been cleaned since it was shot... it was however cleaned BEFORE it was shot.
    Can anybody tell me what's going on here and does this make the gun defective? I am really worried about this one and am considering trying to return the gun or some such. Since the damage is on the frame I'm not sure anything could be done but to replace the gun.

    Pic 1 - there is a nick in the frame.... only 40 rounds and the metal is definitely chipped.
    [​IMG]

    Pic 2 - I can't really recall if this is how this portion of the gun looked when I bought it. Is this normal or is the plastic being carved away as well?
    [​IMG]

    Next question is a classic I'm sure. As soon as I bought my KT I took it home, stripped all the packing grease off and oiled the bad boy down. I took it out shooting with some cheap target rounds... sorry don't have the box anymore, but it's all they had... the last box!
    First 3 mags worked flawlessly. Next 3 however had constant FTE/FTF where the next round would smash into the back of the spent casing. Drop the mag, pull old round out... etc. But it happened at least 5 times in those last few mags... that bothers me! If someone could point me to what I'm sure are numerous threads about this issue I'll check them out. I'm pretty sure I wasn't limp wristing as I am NOT new to shooting but with a new gun I guess anything is possible.

    Lastly I would like to ask that anyone who has the time list some of the better mods or parts that can be switched out on this gun. I'd like to take this gun to the max... though my cheif concern is reliability, function, and carry. I'm pretty familiar with the usual stuff like metal mag catch, laser, mag extension, etc. But what else is out there? Are there any other companies besides kel tec that offer custom parts or services? Any help is appreciated.

    Again... glad to be here and thank you to anyone that can help this newbie out.
     
  2. Hoopster

    Hoopster New Member

    80
    Jan 10, 2009
    Re: 2nd gen 3at problems/concerns/possible damage.

    Pic 1 looks like normal wear.  Just file off any burrs, I believe the wear slows down once broken in.
    Pic 2 looks to be the normal shape.
    As far as your failures go, I would expect that kind of thing unless you do the fluff and buff or have shot over 200 rounds for break in.
     

  3. Hikerman

    Hikerman New Member

    51
    Jun 5, 2009
    Re: 2nd gen 3at problems/concerns/possible damage.

    Keep shooting. The owner of my local gun store carries a P3at everyday. He also sold me mine. He says 250rds for breakin.
     
  4. prototype7

    prototype7 New Member

    9
    Jun 30, 2009
    Re: 2nd gen 3at problems/concerns/possible damage.

    first let me say thank you for the help. I've always heard about the break-in for keltecs but my main concern is that the metal is actually getting chipped away in pick 1. Is this not damaging my gun?
     
  5. RCACFBilly

    RCACFBilly New Member

    136
    Mar 29, 2008
    Re: 2nd gen 3at problems/concerns/possible damage.

    There is a thread here somewhere here that shows the exact wear that you have in picture one. It is totally normal and all you need to do is remove the burrs that appear as a result of the "hammering" in this area. It looks like you took a picture of my frame. They are very close in wear and I have about 350 flawless rounds through mine.

    Billy
     
  6. JFB

    JFB New Member

    Jul 25, 2005
    Re: 2nd gen 3at problems/concerns/possible damage.

    it seems as if this question gets asked every so often and is very alarming to a new P3AT owner. I guess there should be a place where some of these past post could be referanced ::)
    http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1204773333


    to save the trouble of reading through the post include in the FAQ/VIP thread, here is a link to the thread discussing the frame ding
    http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1230319696
     
  7. PShea

    PShea New Member

    10
    Apr 24, 2009
    Re: 2nd gen 3at problems/concerns/possible damage.

    First off, congrats. It's a sweet little gun indeed.

    Second, the wear you're showing is *completely* normal. After the first few shoots I opened her up, found these little areas of resistance and 'helped them along' with the wife's nail file. (Shhh, don't tell her)

    I'm gonna fire a few folks up with this next statement, but I believe 99% of all failures to extract (and subsequently failures to feed) are due to limp-wristing, and weak action blowback.

    Billy says "I have about 350 flawless rounds through mine. " As do I. I've had ONE fte (stovepiped) and I immediately recognized that I'd not been 'focused' (i.e. stout, intentional grip) on the shot. It was about round #80. Late in the shoot.

    Next time out, focus on limiting recoil. Show that puppy who's the boss, and it'll work for you! ;)
     
  8. Possumgravy

    Possumgravy Guest

    Re: 2nd gen 3at problems/concerns/possible damage.

    You oiled it. Nothing said about grease on the rails. Try some light grease instead of oil. I use white spray grease I get at Wal-Mart. Until it gets broken in I'd disassemble after 25 rounds and do a light cleaning and lube. Be sure to wipe out the chamber. Let us know how it comes along.
     
  9. zeke

    zeke New Member

    Dec 20, 2005
    Re: 2nd gen 3at problems/concerns/possible damage.

    Welcome to KTOG, glad to have you here!
    As you've already found out, you can't beat these guns for easy carry.

    The guns that work right out of the box are boring.  It's the ones with some personality that are interesting.  Might not be what you want to hear but it's true.  Rest assured we can help you to get it 100% with a good carry ammo.  When that happens you'll appreciate it that much more, and you'll have a better understanding of the way your little friend functions.

    Don't sweat the small stuff, If we didn't have new members to ask questions, and seek help, we would quickly not have anything to talk about.  IMO the search feature for the site doesn't work that well, even when I know what I'm searching for I sometimes have trouble finding it.



    You had a good start, leads me to believe it could be a lube issue, as Possum gravy said, I personally use grease on the rails. Check out both of these links.
    Fluff & Buff
    http://goldenloki.com/gunsmith/keltec/fullrp.htm

    Lube Guide
    http://goldenloki.com/gunsmith/keltec/lube.htm
    F&B is optional but can help accelerate the break in process.  I'd at least do the rails on the slide, and polish the chamber of the barrel.

    JFB is way ahead of me with his FAQ stuff, but I am working on one for the PF-9 here is what I have for FTE's so far.  The PF9 and P3AT both use the same extractor setup so it valid for all the guns set up that way.  

    Failure to Extract (FTE)
    This condition is described as the fired brass not being fully extracted from the chamber of the barrel.  
    Possible causes and solutions are.  1)Loose button head screw for extractor screw and extractor flat spring,  the screw is located on the right side of the slide.  If this screw is even a quarter of a turn loose it can cause problems.  It should be installed using Loc Tite.  2) Chamber holding onto brass, see Fluff and Buff instruction above about polishing the chamber.

    If you haven't found this thread yet check it out. It's titled new stuff but some of the info is several years old already,  it has some good pics for reference.
    http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1145152844

    Keep us updated.
     
  10. prototype7

    prototype7 New Member

    9
    Jun 30, 2009
    Re: 2nd gen 3at problems/concerns/possible damage.

    wow, thanks for all the help you guys! I think I'm going to try a light f&b this weekend and take her out again. Also might try some grease on the rails. Again, thanks for the help!
     
  11. PF9Newbie

    PF9Newbie New Member

    Nov 22, 2008
    Wisconsin
    Re: 2nd gen 3at problems/concerns/possible damage.

    The suggestions and recommendations above are all good.  A decent F&B, good lube, and be sure the extractor screw is tight are all areas which can help ensure reliability.  However, don't be too quick to dismiss limp wristing as at least a contributing factor.  I note that you had several mags without a problem.  In this feather weight gun, fatigue can quickly lead to limp wristing, particularly when just getting used to the gun.  Also note you are experienced with handguns.  This can actually be one of the issues in limp wristing these light guns, as it it not unusual for experienced gunners to absorb some of the recoil forces in heavier guns through wrist action.  So subconciously, they do so with the light weights as well, but these little gems cannot work that way.  Note that limp wristing has nothing to do with how "tight" or "hard" you hold the gun.  You don't need a death grip.  Rather, ensure that your wrist is not bending or flexing, absorbing the recoil forces.  Wrist should (must) be locked.  Use the elbows and upper arms to soak up recoil.  
    Good luck with the fixes, and hope it shoots well.

    Jim R
     
  12. prototype7

    prototype7 New Member

    9
    Jun 30, 2009
    Re: 2nd gen 3at problems/concerns/possible damage.

    well, thanks for all the help guys. I did a very light f&b focusing mostly on lightly sanding and polishing the chamber. I just did a hand polish with compound and qtips. tomorrow we'll see...
     
  13. abuck50

    abuck50 New Member

    Aug 21, 2008
    NW Ohio
    Re: 2nd gen 3at problems/concerns/possible damage.

    I would recommend getting in contact with Goldloki. He does a "reliability Prep" at a very nominal price. It is much cheaper than running hundred of rounds of high priced, hard to find ammo. My P3AT is smooth as silk since he did mine. As a carry weapon, it makes sense to do everything you can to make your gun accurate and reliable. Your life may depend on it!

    Craig
     
  14. prototype7

    prototype7 New Member

    9
    Jun 30, 2009
    Re: 2nd gen 3at problems/concerns/possible damage.

    Well... as promised here is my report.

    Just to follow up with what I did yesterday. Very light f&b involving mainly the chamber. I used the rolled up sand paper tube method... sanding ONLY in the direction of movement, meaning forward and backward. Then I used some polishing compound and qtips to polish the feed ramp AND the inside of the chamber. I also used a fingernail file and some 800 grit to deburr that nick in the right side of the slide rails, got it nice and smooth. Then I did a light sanding on the guide rod, light sanding on the barrel and the opening for the barrel in the slide, and also a few strokes on the top of the chamber. I also bought and attached the finger rest for the mag. Makes a WORLD of difference in how I hold the gun as I can now get 2 full fingers around it.

    I took her out today and fired what I could find... 25 rounds of ball ammo that was a grab bag from my local gun shop... some pretty old stuff but every round cycled and fired. I only had one jam and I'm pretty sure that one was my fault... last round I let my grip get sloppy.
    Also ran 13 rounds of Federal Hydroshock through it. I was worried about the casing not being brass but after my sanding and polishing of the barrel every round cycled and ejected!

    After this last victorious trip out I am so much more confident in this gun as my carry weapon. I wanted something small... I know me and a big gun would just get left. This gun is my answer! I'm actually carrying it in my watch pocket beleive it or not! Fits nice and snug... just enough room for the clip to grab the denim, and plenty of area for me to get a hold of should I have to draw. There is no wiggle room and I have no fear of it falling out. It's almost like it's in a holster but with my shirt down over it there is ZERO print. My dad and brother both have to ask if I'm carrying it, they can't tell. I'd post some "beauty shots" but it's really just your standard black/black kel tec. Maybe someday I will do something fancy with it but for now it's just for function.
    Anyhow... just wanted to let you guys know that things have been resolved and I appreciate the help.