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Discussion Starter #1
Okay, I have a question. What is the purpose of the halfcock on the 1911? I know that traditionally it's there for safety. The Remington R-1 has a halfcock but the manual says not to carry in halfcock even though the hammer cannot drop from halfcock. Why?
 

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I think halfcock is a saftey to catch the hammer if the hammer ever fell from full cock without the trigger being pulled.
 

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I think another problem is that even though the hammer can't drop from the "halfcock", You also can't engage the thumb safety in the halfcock position.

Bill
 

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Everyone beat me to it. Halfcock is to catch the hammer if dropped without pulling the trigger.
 

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Everyone beat me to it. Halfcock is to catch the hammer if dropped without pulling the trigger.

I would have to test it... but... for those that carry the style "hammer down", I am pretty sure the 1/2 cock will catch if the hammer is pulled back by accident, say snagged on something.
 

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I would have to test it... but... for those that carry the style "hammer down", I am pretty sure the 1/2 cock will catch if the hammer is pulled back by accident, say snagged on something.
If it's pulled BEYOND half cock, but not pulled all the way to it's cocked position, then "slipped" or "released", then yes... half cock does catch it.

Cy
 

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Discussion Starter #8
jonnin said:
I would have to test it... but... for those that carry the style "hammer down", I am pretty sure the 1/2 cock will catch if the hammer is pulled back by accident, say snagged on something.
I was unaware anyone carried a 1911 with the hammer down on a loaded chamber.
 

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I was unaware anyone carried a 1911 with the hammer down on a loaded chamber.
Yep... quite a few, actually... it's known as 'condition 2' in the "carry conditions" for a 1911:

Condition 0 - A round is in the chamber, hammer is cocked, and the safety is off.

Condition 1 - Also known as "cocked and locked," means a round is in the chamber, the hammer is cocked, and the manual thumb safety on the side of the frame is applied.

Condition 2 - A round is in the chamber and the hammer is down.

Condition 3 - The chamber is empty and hammer is down with a charged magazine in the gun.

Condition 4 - The chamber is empty, hammer is down and no magazine is in the gun.

Cy
 

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I don't know about later wars, but according to some WW2 and Korean War combat veterans I knew, Condition 2 was their preferred mode of carry when in combat.
 

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The Remington R-1 has a halfcock but the manual says not to carry in halfcock even though the hammer cannot drop from halfcock. Why?
They probably make this recommendation so somebody who does carry it that way can't sue them because it didn't go bang when they pulled the trigger in a stressful situation. When I carry mine it is in condition 2. But I have just started carrying recently and I am more comfortable doing it this way. I do so understanding I need to cock the hammer as I am drawing the weapon.
 

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I started carring mine cocked with a empty chamber, never did have a problem.

Was mostly worried about carring it left handed and the safety hanging out!!! The iwb holster i'm using know has the safety down in the leather.

After reading alot i started carring cocked and locked
 

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John Browning designed it to be carried "cocked and locked."

There is no other reason for the thumb safety, it does nothing at all unless the pistol is cocked. And why would you carry the pistol cocked with an empty chamber?

Condition 1 and only.
 

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Sorry Toney...that wasn't directed at you. Just a general statement/question.
 

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John Browning designed it to be carried "cocked and locked."
I agree, for me anyhow, if I'm carrying a 1911, it's cocked and locked as well as Commander by my bed. IIRC, I have read (1911 Tuner I think) that JB first designed the 1911 without a thumb safety. The "half cock" notch was intended to be used as a "safety" kinda like the "safety notch" on a 1873 Peacemaker. The Army insisted on the thumb safety being added since mounted calvary troops after firing the pistol had a "little" problem manipulating the grip safety, trigger and hammer with one hand to get the hammer into the half cock notch without an AD and shooting their horse or another trooper.:eek:
 

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I carry 'cocked and locked'. 'Course, I waited a hundred years to see how things went, then jumped in the pool. I understood that in condition 2 (hammer down on a live round) that the gun could fire if the hammer was struck like when dropped. Can any of you confirm or refute that?


Lop
 

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I carry 'cocked and locked'. 'Course, I waited a hundred years to see how things went, then jumped in the pool. I understood that in condition 2 (hammer down on a live round) that the gun could fire if the hammer was struck like when dropped. Can any of you confirm or refute that?


Lop
Depends on if it's a model 70 or 80. The 80 has a firing pin block to prevent that.
 

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I carry 'cocked and locked'. 'Course, I waited a hundred years to see how things went, then jumped in the pool. I understood that in condition 2 (hammer down on a live round) that the gun could fire if the hammer was struck like when dropped. Can any of you confirm or refute that?


Lop
For my first Rock Island (which is a 70s series), after I purchased my replacement hammer, hammer block, and bevertail, I decided to test this. With the factory parts, a snap cap (with a light smear of putty on the 'primer'), and a 2x4 clamped to a table. I gripped the pistol and pounded the hammer onto the 2x4. After a few hard smacks, I checked the snap cap. The firing pin had not touched the primer of the snap cap, so I put it back in and gave it some HARDER smacks. Checked again, repeated process. I ended up basically beating the breaks off it. CHUNKS were taken out of the 2x4 and the hammer block had some obvious 'dents' in it, but the firing pin never touched the snap cap. For that pistol, there's simply not enough forward movement of the hammer to transfer enough energy to the firing pin for it to touch the primer.

Granted, there IS a bit of 'give' for a pine 2x4. More so than there would be for a concrete floor. I simply couldn't bring myself to beat it against concrete and jack up the finish, and I think it was a fair enough 'drop test'.

Cy
 

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Although it seems to be rare, 1911s with original or series 70 firing pins can fire if dropped from high enough and land on the muzzle on a hard surface. Some more recent 1911s rely on a light firing pin and extra power FP spring to prevent this. I put Wolff extra power springs in my USGI and RIA 1911s to make em a little more drop proof. My Commander is a series 80 and has a firing pin safety. A number of 1911s have this besides Colt.
 
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