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Discussion Starter #1
I tried a variety of 12G low recoil 2 3/4" ammo and the Centurion ammo using my 20" Mossberg. I shot at cardboard boxes placed about 40 feet away. I want low recoil for better control if I should ever need it for Home Defense. I also wanted to see just how much better a "flight control wad" round performed as compared to a standard low recoil round. Remember, I am looking for the largest spread at a short distance. I did not have a ruler nor a camera with me. BUT, BUT, BUT I did have a 32 oz plastic cup. Huh?! What did he just say?

Place the rim of your 32 oz. soda cup on your own chest and/or abdomen. Good enough spread for home defense, for me anyways, and a pretty good chance of hitting something vital. Your thoughts?

The Centurion shells are not low recoil but are indeed neat. By that I mean the 0.6" ball always went straight and the surrounding shot did spread a little. I had hoped the surrounding shot would spread more evenly. Sometimes the surrounding shot would be all on one side. I decided that's not too good for a "scatter gun." Also, the shot was too close to the 0.6" ball. I'd say probably at most 2 inches. I wanted a more open spread.

I also tried the Federal flight control variety, but it worked too well. By that I mean kudos to Federal for a wad design that keeps shot so tightly patterned. For hunting this would be my brand of choice, for sure! However, the shot pattern at ~40' looked to be a ragged 2" hole. Obviously, for my own need, this is way too tight of a pattern. If I were to miss the first round, I feel secure in saying all the shot would miss the bad guy.

Winchester Win-Lite rounds tied for my brand of choice. These were the softest shooting rounds and they gave a good spread. The shot pattern was usually just within the rim of the cup. I still buy these on occasion.

Fiocchi low recoil rounds ties with the Win-Lites. These had the widest spread at ~40 feet and sometimes the shot was outside the rim of the cup. The recoil was a smidge over that of the Win-Lite round.

I have been told, and read, that Fiocchi burns a bit dirtier than other rounds. Do I care? No! Remember, I only expect a few shots for home defense. After that, my gun will probably be taken as evidence and not ever be returned. I dunno if that is procedure, but that is what I am expecting would happen. I have practiced and practiced with the Fiocchi rounds because they are cheaper in bulk than the Win-Lite rounds. Also, please note that I have not had a single problem with the Fiocchi rounds.

Well, FWIW, there you have it. I look forward to your comments and thoughts.

-Michael
 

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I know this has been beat to death but some people prefer the lower velocity shells for HD because they don't have to worry about over penetration like they would with 00 buck or some such. I use Rem #7 game loads in my mossy because in my apartment there is not a single shot that will be long enough to require a heavier load. Inside of a room a larger number of smaller shot will still be very deadly. My barrel is just over the legal limit and shot scatters pretty fast out of it. Heavier shot tends to scatter worse from shorter barrels in most cases and the risk of having a "flyer" that goes way out of the ball park increases as well. If I lived alone and had no neighbors I would stoke mine with a 00 buck and slug mixture. Just my .02.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
SGT Rock: All the rounds were loaded with double aught. I can not find O or 1 Buck in low recoil off the shelf. Since I don't have experience loading shells I will keep on buying them. Perhaps soon there will be a low recoil 1 Buck round.

Although the Moss 500 will accept 3" shells I prefer 2 3/4" shells as more will fit in the gun and there should be less recoil. I found shells that I like, Win-Lites and Fiocchi, and thus I won't test add'l brands nor shell lengths.

-Safe shooting
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Torrent: You are correct stating that across the room small shot can be deadly. I still prefer low recoil rounds as I am not a huge muscular dude (working on that). I'd prefer a 1 Buck low recoil round over the double aught, for sure.

For apartment living, lemme say thanks for using a shot that may not seriously injure your neighbor. I now wonder what my old apartment neighbor had loaded in is shotgun :-/ I now live in an old thick walled brick home so I am not too concerned with over penetration into my neighbors thick brick home.
 

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If you want a good spread, low wall penetration, and a low recoil you ought to try some number 4 shot. Shoot up a piece of plywood at about 10 yards and see what happens. with 2 3/4 number 4 you should also be able to try holding the trigger down while actioning the shotgun and the recoil will not take you out of the area of aim while at the same time giving you a rapid fire option. Of course if you ever had to do this in your house it would destroy all your furniture.
 

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Holding the trigger down while pumping will result in exactly one shot, until you release the trigger and pull it again.

There haven't been any modern shotguns made without a disconnector since the old Model 97 & Model 12 Winchesters.

You will also find that a 1 1/4 oz or 1 1/2 oz load of #4 will kick harder then a load of 00 Buck, either standard, or low-recoil.

Nine 00 buck pellets weigh 486 grains.
1 1/4 oz #4 weighs 547 grains.
1 1/2 oz #4 weighs 656 grains.

7 pound gun:
00 Buck Low Recoil @ 1,125 FPS = 18 ft/lb of free recoil.
00 Buck standard load @ 1,450 FPS = 28 ft/lb of free recoil.
1 1/4 oz #4 @ 1,400 FPS = 32 ft/lb of free recoil.
1 1/2 oz of #4 @ 1,260 FPS = 37 ft/lb of free recoil.

rcmodel
 

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rcmodel said:
Holding the trigger down while pumping will result in exactly one shot, until you release the trigger and pull it again.

There haven't been any modern shotguns made without a disconnector since the old Model 97 & Model 12 Winchesters.
rcmodel

my 20ga. model 37 Ithaca will fire like that, but it is fairly old.(got it used 25 years ago) my fathers newer one won't though.
 

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Yes, older Model 37's lacked a disconnector also.

Mossy 500's, Rem 870's, Win 1200's, etc. have had them since serial #1.

rcmodel
 

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I've used my Remington 870 to do that. I suppose someone should tell it that it can't. Maybe it needs to see a gunsmith - it's 26 years old.

I've also seen it done with the Army Mossberg 500. I didn't do it myself though - so maybe he was faking it.

And as for the math, hang the math. I just shoot and notice the difference. Maybe you are talking #4 buckshot and I am talking #4 bird shot.

(note: edited so I didn't come across as a jerk)
 
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I went to the range today and I’m happy to say my KS7 loves minishells! shot a bunch without any issues! It’s extremely accurate with the red dot out to I guess about 20 yards. The pattern is pretty tight. That’s all I need it for! I was tearin it up! I love the combo #4 & #1 buckshot. Yeah, it’ll do the job just fine. The aguila minI shells have become my go-to home defense round officially. Magazine holds 12 of them. But I still got plenty of Fiocci 2-3/4” .00 nickel plated buckshot left too. And some same brand reduced recoil .00 too.
 

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<snip>
My barrel is just over the legal limit and shot scatters pretty fast out of it. Heavier shot tends to scatter worse from shorter barrels in most cases and the risk of having a &quot;flyer&quot; that goes way out of the ball park increases as well. <snip>
Actually that's a myth that people hear and keep repeating. It may have a basis in fact if the barrel had a longer origin and was shortened thus removing the choke*. Then under that special condition it would be true as compared to a barrel still having the choke. But short barrels inherently having bigger spreads? That just isn't true IF the barrel is choked. Then it will have a shot spread similar to other barrels with the same choke. But it's within a general spread, there is no definite rule that states that all barrels with x amount of choke will have this exact spread. What a longer barrel does have is a longer sight radius and for some folks that might make for more "precise" aiming, thus fewer misses. Especially with buck shot where the art of wing shooting is displaced in favor of shooting at something that doesn't fly and a finer bead is drawn because there's time to do so. But red dot sights and rails and such today have made that a non-issue.

Things that a longer barrel might have is more mass "out there" to better help with swing and follow through. Possibly slightly higher velocity also, but with the extremely fast powders used I just don't see that as being a good reason for a longer barrel unless it's going to be used in a blind where it won't get in the way. Maybe it made a difference with black powder.

*I had a single shot shotgun years ago that originally had a long barrel. I bought it but knew that Id be having the barrel cut back to just legal. Of course that removed the choke and that was the point. It is (I still have it) absolutely deadly on upland game. After that one I bought a Browning SbyS and had it's barrels cut back to remove the choke with the same result. Short barrels also don't get hung up in heavy cover as easily and are extremely fast. So fast that with my training in Quick Kill I had to slow myself down or all I'd have would be a cloud of feathers. The lack of choke helped with that also since the cloud of shot had time to thin out but still be deadly.

edit: I had forgotten about this since the shotgun is long gone, decades ago, but years ago I had a model37 12ga that had a longish stock barrel and in keeping with my love of short barrels I sent it out to have the barrel cut back and work done to allow it to take screw in choke tubes. That was long before screw in choke tubes were common. They existed they just weren't common. That shotgun had just as tight a pattern as any turkey gun would have had with a similar choke.
 
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