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Hi-Point's new 10mm carbine

9K views 44 replies 15 participants last post by  Fundy 
#1 ·
I had a 9mm Hi-Point, gone once I got my Sub2K. But the 10mm in a carbine is very appealing.
 
#3 ·
Waiting for the 10mm pistol. I have absolutely zero practical use for either the pistol or carbine, but if you're gonna have one, might as well have the other to go with it, right? :)

Besides, I've always kinda wanted to get a Hi-Point at some point as a "just for giggles" kind of gun, although I don't know why. Maybe just to see if they really do run as well as so many claim, or if it does, in fact, jam constantly like so many OTHER folks insist. Y'know, verifying for myself. For what little they cost, you could pretty easily pick up the carbine AND the rifle (in either 9mm, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP) right now and pay about the same or less for those two guns as you would just to buy a pistol-caliber carbine of another flavor and type. Well, aside from the SUB2000, of course, which isn't that expensive. (Most others seem to start somewhere around the $600 mark and go up from there.) And about the only other 10mm carbines I'm aware of at this time are the KRISS Vector and the MechTech conversion carbine, so it's a pretty limited list of alternatives.

But again ... not sure what the real point of or benefit to 10mm in a single-stack carbine, aside from being a range toy and maybe as a home defense option. The ammo certainly ain't cheap, so that limits its plinking fun time as far as being a range toy, and 10mm with the added velocity of a carbine-length barrel could either result in over-penetration risks or a tendency to make a (light-for-caliber) bullet perform less-than-optimally upon impact because it'll be outside the realm of its design. Y'know, sort of like the things you see happen sometimes when people push Gold Dots and other bullets to velocities a lot higher than they were originally meant to go - jacket separation, bullet coming apart, big expansion or fragmentation but with really shallow penetration, etc. Dunno. Hafta see what some folks find as they hit the market and experiment with 'em on gel blocks and such.

Anyway. Random thoughts.
 
#14 ·
Obligatory Opening Statement: I STILL want a beefed up 10mm version of the SUB-2000.

I was glad to see Hi-Point selling their 10mm carbine. There's a lot I like about Hi-Point - US made with a great warranty, reliable, and very reasonably priced. I still can't get past the looks, and I'm usually not that hung up on aesthetics. Something about the Hi-Point appearance really bugs me. Their 10mm carbine has been getting good reviews, and there is apparently an after market bullpup stock that replaces most of the ugly bits. :D

I'm not sure what Hi-Point is thinking. It doesn't cost any more to injection mold an attractive stock, and why oh why don't they use the ubiquitous Glock magazines that are for all practical purposes an industry standard?
 
#15 ·
Obligatory Opening Statement: I STILL want a beefed up 10mm version of the SUB-2000.

I was glad to see Hi-Point selling their 10mm carbine. There's a lot I like about Hi-Point - US made with a great warranty, reliable, and very reasonably priced. I still can't get past the looks, and I'm usually not that hung up on aesthetics. Something about the Hi-Point appearance really bugs me. Their 10mm carbine has been getting good reviews, and there is apparently an after market bullpup stock that replaces most of the ugly bits. :D
Have you seen the High Tower bullpup stock for HP?

and why oh why don't they use the ubiquitous Glock magazines that are for all practical purposes an industry standard?
Honestly? Because they're not going to redesign the receiver. The carbine was designed during Bill Clitton's "Assault Weapon's Ban" with its 10 round limit. The 10 round limit, along with HP's design philosophy of "keep it simple so we can keep it inexpensive" and the forever warranty, means a bunch of powerful incentives to never redesign the receiver.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 
#18 ·
So far, I've seen only one actual range test of the 10mm carbine. Accuracy was a good deal less than exemplary. Not much better than a decent 10mm pistol, really.

I figure there are two reasons for the pistol caliber carbines. One is the ballistic gain from the longer barrel. The other is improved practical accuracy (gun and shooter), allowing a little more 'reach' over the handgun. The HP 10mm carbine provides the first, but not the second. The 10mm is a fairly stout cartridge, and perhaps the HP receiver is close to its limits at that power level. Not a gripe against HP, as I'm very happy with my 9mm. Just a possibility that they bit off a little more than they could chew, so to speak. Kinda wonder about the effects of a blowback (rather than delayed cycle) action on cartridge case life as well.

I'll probably look around and see if I can find an AR-pattern carbine in 10mm.
 
#19 ·
So far, I've seen only one actual range test of the 10mm carbine. Accuracy was a good deal less than exemplary. Not much better than a decent 10mm pistol, really.
They've been popping up. There's a few over on HPFF. Accuracy is OK for those shooting, though apparently some carbines seem to like some ammo better than others.

I figure there are two reasons for the pistol caliber carbines. One is the ballistic gain from the longer barrel. The other is improved practical accuracy (gun and shooter), allowing a little more 'reach' over the handgun. The HP 10mm carbine provides the first, but not the second.
Some people just like the 10. That's reason enough. Then there's the ability to share ammo with your favorite 10mm handgun.

The 10mm is a fairly stout cartridge, and perhaps the HP receiver is close to its limits at that power level.
I don't think so, but I guess anything is possible.

Kinda wonder about the effects of a blowback (rather than delayed cycle) action on cartridge case life as well.
Maximum SAAMI pressure for the 10mm is actually 1K less than max on 9mm +P. The 995/995TS and C9 are both rated to +P and no one has mentioned unwarranted case stretching, cracking, or other issues with that. So I suspect that it won't be a problem with the 10mm, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 
#21 ·
I think the issue with the 10mm is the longer case length/higher powder capacity, coupled to the greater case diameter. Probably tougher to get a blowback system to delay long enough to let the pressure drop before the case starts extracting, with more total force and a longer burn time. BTW, if you don't already reload, a 10mm carbine might be a good reason to start. Load the full spectrum, from plinking loads to hunting power. Bullets are quite reasonable, and powder capacity pretty small, relative to rifle loads. Assuming your firearm doesn't tear the cases up.
 
#22 ·
I do reload. But a 10 just doesn't really have a place in my lineup right now.

To be honest, I what I really want is an AR pistol in 300 BLK.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 
#23 ·
Probably tougher to get a blowback system to delay long enough to let the pressure drop before the case starts extracting, with more total force and a longer burn time.
Bingo! The 9mm is about the threshold for blowbacks that are anything close to reasonable. Even .40 is a stretch needing so much mass to keep the case in the chamber long enough for the pressure to drop.

I dabbled with .300BO and eventually sold it because the 9mm actually performs better in a HD role in terms of performance.

But to keep on track with the 10mm theme, I also dabbled with making 10mm work in a blowback, and unless you want .40S&W performance, just not worth the risk in terms of parts wear, not to mention terrible accuracy. So I ended up with a QC10 Large frame Glock lower mated with a DI 10mm upper. Custom bolt and barrel, but all else is AR15 parts. RMW Extreme did the bolt and barrel for me. 115s at 2200 fps to 200s at 1500 fps with recoil about like the blowback 9mms.

The cartridge sitting in front of the chrono display is a Rem 180g Golden Sabre, which runs about 1125 out of a pistol. That is a hefty power bump out of a 16" barrel.
 

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#24 ·
I dabbled with .300BO and eventually sold it because the 9mm actually performs better in a HD role in terms of performance.
What were your performance metrics and benchmarks to measure against?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 
#26 ·
I'm apparently weak and of poor moral character. I succumbed to the inner voices and ordered the 10mm Hi-Point carbine from Bud's Gun Shop a few days ago. I ordered it from their website, but they're also my local gun shop, so I'm waiting for it to arrive so I can pick it up locally because I just love paying sales tax. Based on past experiences, it'll probably arrive soon... maybe later today. o_O

I feel like I'm cheating on my SUB-2000.
 
#27 ·
I feel like I'm cheating on my SUB-2000.
Some people find that the HP carbines are more comfortable to them to shoot.

Personally, I kinda like my gen1 subby and I don't find there to be enough difference in comfort and recoil etc. for me to care. ...and my subby is "neater."

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 
#29 ·
Waiting for the 10mm pistol. I have absolutely zero practical use for either the pistol or carbine, but if you're gonna have one, might as well have the other to go with it, right? :)

Besides, I've always kinda wanted to get a Hi-Point at some point as a "just for giggles" kind of gun, although I don't know why. Maybe just to see if they really do run as well as so many claim, or if it does, in fact, jam constantly like so many OTHER folks insist. Y'know, verifying for myself. For what little they cost, you could pretty easily pick up the carbine AND the rifle (in either 9mm, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP) right now and pay about the same or less for those two guns as you would just to buy a pistol-caliber carbine of another flavor and type. Well, aside from the SUB2000, of course, which isn't that expensive. (Most others seem to start somewhere around the $600 mark and go up from there.) And about the only other 10mm carbines I'm aware of at this time are the KRISS Vector and the MechTech conversion carbine, so it's a pretty limited list of alternatives.

But again ... not sure what the real point of or benefit to 10mm in a single-stack carbine, aside from being a range toy and maybe as a home defense option. The ammo certainly ain't cheap, so that limits its plinking fun time as far as being a range toy, and 10mm with the added velocity of a carbine-length barrel could either result in over-penetration risks or a tendency to make a (light-for-caliber) bullet perform less-than-optimally upon impact because it'll be outside the realm of its design. Y'know, sort of like the things you see happen sometimes when people push Gold Dots and other bullets to velocities a lot higher than they were originally meant to go - jacket separation, bullet coming apart, big expansion or fragmentation but with really shallow penetration, etc. Dunno. Hafta see what some folks find as they hit the market and experiment with 'em on gel blocks and such.

Anyway. Random thoughts.
The benefit of a 10mm in a 10+1 carbine .. HD , Farm carbine , hawg carbine , tree stand carbine for whitetail in the bush ...
The 10mm in a pistol Glock 20 or 40 comes to mind as a woods carry .. I carry my 20 & 29 for SD ... Increased velocities from a 10mm with a hollow point may decrease penetration do to increased exspansion especially in a carbine , where increases in velocity maybe up to 200 FPS as compared to a pistol ...
For deer , hawgs & black bear 200-220gr Hardcast maybe the best bet ...
10mm has made it back from the ashes for a reason !!!!
 
#30 ·
The benefit of a 10mm in a 10+1 carbine .. HD , Farm carbine , hawg carbine , tree stand carbine for whitetail in the bush ...
The 10mm in a pistol Glock 20 or 40 comes to mind as a woods carry .. I carry my 20 & 29 for SD ... Increased velocities from a 10mm with a hollow point may decrease penetration do to increased exspansion especially in a carbine , where increases in velocity maybe up to 200 FPS as compared to a pistol ...
For deer , hawgs & black bear 200-220gr Hardcast maybe the best bet ...
10mm has made it back from the ashes for a reason !!!!
So much information in your one post.
Let's rewind the tape. The 10mm designed as the ultimate handgun round for the FBI.
Superior knockdown power. Nobody limps away.
Follow-up shots were a problem because the gun occasionally danced out of shooter's hands
Yellow Automotive lighting Light Text Vehicle registration plate
.
So it was cut down and the 40 S&W was born. (boring story)
But what was to become of the "more awesome 10mm?"
Hipoint comes into play.
They do brave stuff that others won't touch, and sell a good working gun cheap; but it's not very pretty:oops:.
For the few of us that are concerned only with reliability and power, it gets our attention...bigtime.

Hell, I'll say it... they're ugly.
And we don't care. You put them thru exhausting tests and they keep floating to the top of the pile again and again, it gets your attention.
Look at the energy ballistics numbers of the 10mm round thru a 16" barrel:eek:.
Text Line Plot Design Font
600-1000 ft/lbs.

What other carbine shoots that?
Well the KEL-TEC Sub-10 does but...
OOPS! :ignore:
Hi-Point 10mm Carbine; totally awesome! (but not real pretty).
 
#33 ·
I recently bought the 9mm and 10mm Hi-Point carbines. (Don't tell my SUB-2000s) I've been wanting a 10mm carbine for a long time, for the reasons that Blake articulated so well. I had my eye on a Just Right Carbine in 10mm. It's more of an AR platform with a barrel that's easily removable for storage and transportation.

The 10mm ballistics chart is encouraging. A 6 inch barrel only loses 13% of the energy compared to a 16" barrel. That makes my Glock 40 look pretty good, and it's quite a bit more portable than even a folding pistol caliber carbine... but I'd still give a left dangly bit for a 10mm SUB-2000. Hopefully, the Hi-Point 10mm will be perceived by Kel-Tec as a gauntlet thrown on the ground and they'll rise to the occasion. That'd be another Must Have Kel-Tec fer sure.

At the risk of piling on, those Hi-Points are awfully hard on the eyes. It's like they tried to make them extra ugly. Reasonably priced, reliable, great warranty and customer service... but MEIN EYES!
 
#37 ·
I had a C9 years ago .. Picked it up at a Pawnshop .. Looked new , it had a extra mag ... Paid $90.00 OTD .. I ran a few hundred cheap steel cased 9mm down its pipe .. tested a few mags of Federal 124gr HST through it ... The pistol always ran flawlessly. It was my beater , truck gun .. I kept in one of my old range bags ...
It eventually went on a trade of some sort ...
I keep my eyes peeled at LGS and pawnshops for a lesser exspensive C9
Im hoping they come out with a 10mm handgun ...
But I heard , it ain't going to happen !
 
#39 ·
I wanted a 9mm carbine...a lot. Looked at and handled a Hi-Point 9mm. Fugly, like a commie WWII piece except for the plastic, but had a nice feel and the huge on-board sights actually worked for my old eyes. I like the magazine built into the pistol grip.

But then, later did the same with a Ruger 9PC. Looked a l-t-t-l-e better, sights not as good and more expensive than the Hi-Point. The little 9mm mag sticking out of the stock looks stupid, especially the long Glock.

If I had the cash lying around in a sock drawer, I'd probably get the Hi-Point. And why is the Ruger PC9 a pull-apart? It ain't that long to begin with.
 
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