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She's Coming Along

11K views 49 replies 11 participants last post by  dred 
#1 · (Edited)
Seems I got ahead of myself in another thread and promised to reveal the ultimate setup or some such nonsense. I'm much closer, but I don't feel like I can call her finished yet. I'd like to type at you 'bout her and share a few pics I snapped at the range this afternoon

My Subby won the first heat versus the Ruger PCC and the Mechtech Carbine Conversion. I wanna make her a vehicle carbine so stowage size and speed of deployment were significant considerations. Ruger was eliminated first 'cause it has the slowest deployment from stowage. The Mechy was more difficult to eliminate, but finally lost out due to my need to dedicate a second lower (I have 10mm and 460R Mechies that share a lower but my desire to base this in my vehicles required another).

The Subby is a 9mm M&P variant and will cause me to buy my first polymer and my first striker fired pistol so Subby can have a mate. Unless I can't do it and go CZ 75 [emoji41]. At any rate she's 3 weeks old and maturing nicely. Her exceptional stock trigger pull of 7lb (10 pull average) is now a respectable 4lb 4oz pull (10 pull average) thanks to mcarbo's spring kit, flat trigger and improved trigger guard. A couple well placed snips and we can now tuck the rear sight out of the way when desired. I also went in for the comfort mods and added the rubber sleeve to the bolt tube, recoilless (hardly FYI) charging handle and recoil buffer - all by mcarbo. We got her a fancy red lion Indexing thingy, but she's growing up to be a working girl so the fancy dress is still hanging in the closet with tags still on it. She's gonna have to be my eyes sometimes and I'm always gonna be rushing so she's sporting Bushnell's new Haste red laser. I kid you not, the Haste is like Yoga pants for Subbies - attractive, functional and versatile.

Have a look-see for yourownself - she ain't shy:

 
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#5 ·
Next up will be brake trials with the Archon unit @Isaiah5411 brought to our attention. If it doesn't wake the neighbors at the indoor range - it will be a keeper. I'm hoping for some degree of recoil mitigation 'cause I like shooting this thing enough for my shoulder to notice.

I've also got a front sight post with a tritium dot inbound - thanks to the member that turned us on to the Blitzkreig Sights. Since I now understand that I can get Mcarbo's taller sight to auto deploy I will probably go in for one shortly.

I've got a friend that wants to run it in IDPA. I met him tonight at the range so I could fondle the apex trigger on his competition M&P - I liked it so the M&P has won out over the CZ option. He explained that a red dot will get the S2k into the game. I think I want to do an offset mount, but I'm trying to come to grips with increasing the depth of the stowed package. Midwest Industries mount is fast, but time to flip away, flip back plus tolerating the extreme height over bore effects on POI keep me from inviting it to the wedding. I may still elect to set up a dot sight on a quick release mount which would be engaged given the oportunity.

Very nice!
That laser/AFG looks like a factory option.[emoji41]
How do you like the flat trigger?
So far ... the flat trigger is a win. Packaged with their spring kit - it is closer to great than I thought I'd be able to achieve at the start.
 
#6 · (Edited)
So ... updating my plans and sharing.

My objective has not changed. My approach has changed enough that I'm updating while I wait for a new pile of parts - here is what's happening at my place ...

I'm reluctantly accepting that the green laser version of the Bushnell Haste Optic is now unlikely to happen. I note that Bushnell has offered a $30 Mail in rebate (to clear inventory?) and Optics Planet has declared that the green laser version is "unorderable." I accept this as signalling from Bushnell, so I'm cutting and running. The red will not get me where I am trying to go as effective range is not much more than 10 yards in full sun. My father is going to love the red laser version when I sneak it onto his AR Pistol.

I replaced my front sight post with this:

That top dot is tritium and I've discovered the factory peep is not very useable in the dark. I may toss mcarbo's notch rear sight on if I don't get my cheek weld more consistent and repeatable.

I have an Archon muzzle brake that I'm ready to try as well.

I don't know if this will survive on the build. What I really want is a shorty linear comp by Kaw Valley Precision, but since they don't make a shorty ... I'm gonna sound test this little beast. It adds 1" to OAL of the subby and I think is looks awesome. Thanks to @Isaiah5411 for sharing his experience with this on his sub 2k. If it is too loud, I'll be swapping out for a Kaw Valley which I use on other platforms with good result.

Breaking News:
The Red Lion Forend and long rail are getting pulled out of the closet. I'm not planning to index it in use, but I will install the long pic rail on the left side as mounted. The rail will get a ladder style cover, but it will be available to index into place if/when I want to play with ?kitchen sinks? at the range. I got the latest iteration of the forend so my slots accept m-lok accessories. I will fit a laser on the bottom and an offset rail on the right side to mount a dot sight. Top of the forend will remain blank to preserve fold-ability. My dot sight is not yet determined. I'm considering a Holosun for the subby. I have an faux eotech that will do until I make a decision.
That did not work out as planned. The Red Lion Forend is NOT m-loc compliant.

The following are some pics I will look at while I keep the shipping carriers busy. These bits are ordered and eagerly anticipated:

I'm waiting on the slow boat to deliver this green laser for trials:


I'm going to mount the laser with these Magpul bits:
Auto part Tool accessory


And I will offset mount a red dot sight on:
 
#8 · (Edited)
But $60! Ouch!
Trust that I shopped for another several hours before biting that bullet. I decided that having my optic actually centered over the bore will help me stretch the little 9mm pills to the limits of their effective range.

I didn't start the build with a budget, but I will tally my costs when I feel like it's not going to get any better. This is a "civilian duty" type build and I'm a 1911 guy. I recognize that my cost-to-value interpretations have been distorted by my JMB fan club initiation fee.

Brief Range Performance Review:

The Haste picked up easily at 25 yards indoors - beam is actually clearly visible from muzzle to target and this is good enough to keep it in the race.
I also ran it today with the Archon Brake and the Blitzkrieg sight post - honestly I could be satisfied and done now. The Blitzkrieg allowed my tired and weak eyes to comfortably maintain front sight focus. The Archon invited enough stability that recoil did not disrupt the sight picture under controlled rapid fire.

My trio of limited capacity 10 round Promags landed today and performed flawlessly at the range. This Texan had to buy'm to cross MD, NJ and NY in June. Upsets me that these states are jacking with my warm and fuzzy for my entire road trip over their nanny nonsense. I figure Promag puts all their competent folks on the line producing mags for the M&P - previous experience for other platforms really makes it hard for me to rely on their product - I'm gonna shoot the heck out of these and I will hopefully learn to trust them.

Just like that, I'm holding on this build while I work toward getting the pistol companion up to speed. I'm probably done until the green laser lands anyway.
 
#9 ·
Laser order still shows as processing. The rest of the bits I've already waxed 'bout are here waiting. The M&P partner is in-hand but unfired. I'm waiting on the thumb safety and the Apex trigger bits before firing the pistol.

I did manage to select a red dot for trials. Optics Planet had a fair price and free shipping on the Holosun HS503BU - shake-to-wake and 65MOA circle dot. So, this one added to my waiting for it que:

It comes with the pictured high mount plus a low mount. I'm hoping the low mount is workable.

I have one additional happy stick inbound as well. I've begun fitting it to the Rigid brand hard case. During layout, I decided a second happy stick would fit comfortably. Regarding the Rigid boxes, I purchased a set which are slowly being fitted to haul the bulk of the gear I sometimes need or want at the range.



The top box is perfectly sized for the Sub2k. I'll share pics of my interior layout once I do the foam cuts. It will be a bit, but I can tell you that an entrepreneurial sort is selling this box customized for the sub2k on Gunbroker. And, the pic is linked from Amazon, but Home Depot has a much friendlier price than Amazon.

 
#11 ·
So ... color me frustrated. I have finished the pistol, so I turned my attention back to the Subby build.

The forend is installed, bit it's getting removed and sold or returned. I expect my frustration is my own creation. I'm certain I read that the forend slots are now m-loc compatible (I will be finding the posts I made to correct my part in promulgating this untruth. Turns out the Red Lion Forend is definitely NOT m-loc compatible, so I will be accepting offers as soon as I can get it up in the trading post.

I did manage to get weights from b4 and after install. They are pictured.

The other pics show my limited progress on the hard case.
 
#15 ·
@ReluctantDecoy:

Since I can't ask in the picture thread ... hopefully I've lured you here where I can. Your "* 3D printed Butt Stock (Prototype for design concept. Factory lock clip still works!)" looks awesome. Please let me know if you are willing to print another. I am going to cut out material to cushion the impacts on my shoulder and yours has everything I actually need/want.

Kudos on your design regardless.

For anyone else reading - the Subby he posted to the sticky photo thread is very well conceived.
 
#16 · (Edited)
@ReluctantDecoy:

Since I can't ask in the picture thread ... hopefully I've lured you here where I can. Your "* 3D printed Butt Stock (Prototype for design concept. Factory lock clip still works!)" looks awesome. Please let me know if you are willing to print another. I am going to cut out material to cushion the impacts on my shoulder and yours has everything I actually need/want.

Kudos on your design regardless.

For anyone else reading - the Subby he posted to the sticky photo thread is very well conceived.
Thanks for the compliment! Truth be told, inspiration of my design came from a post on this forum a while back. Can't for the life of me find the post again to credit the OG guy, but here is his subbie (see pic below). Now that I'm looking at it again, I might end up rounding off the fin at the bottom like his.

I think he made his too. I'd be happy to make one for you, but please note that when I said "prototype", I really meant it. This is a 80% infill piece, meaning that in order to keep the weight down, it is 20% hollow. Still takes 11 hours to print on fine settings, if you can believe that. Problem is, I have no idea how it will hold up yet. I'm not worried about shooting failure, as the bolt spring pin is held in place by the metal tube, and that's the part that takes the firing load. However, I have no idea how long the "L" part of the buttstock will last. I have a lot of experience 3D printing, but most pieces are for design concept and very few are up to the rigors and stresses of actual use. If I liked the design, I was either going to mold/cast it or send the file off to a company to have it CNC milled out of aluminum. In the interim, I'm going to anneal this one to strengthen the ABS, then test it out next weekend.

I've also put some thought towards the padding. I also 3D printed a mold for a rubber tread pad for the butt end of the stock. Sprayed in some silicone to help de-mold, then poured in some Flexseal rubber. It is currently curing, but I think I'm on to something on this one (assuming I can get a sufficient bond between the rubber and ABS)
Yellow Circle
.



Gun Firearm Rifle Trigger Air gun
 
#18 ·
Thanks @ReluctantDecoy. I am in no hurry. I can proceed with a bit of padding until you have it flushed out. Weight is not a big concern for me, so whatever clever you come up with will work as long as the result is a stock I can shoot with.

Judging from the location of the bruises make ... I'm going to be pretty hard on the stock. My hold is extremely high on my shoulder such that I think the bolt tube is actually above my shoulder.
 
#20 ·
Sorry...life got in the way yesterday and didn't get to post anything last night. Just de-molded the butt stock rubber piece. Good news is that this method works nearly flawlessly. Bad news is that I severely screwed up the depth of the mold, leaving me with a rather thin piece of rubber that won't do a whole lot for impact cushioning. Will have to de-design the rubber piece to allow for 1 CM or so more of thickness. Who knew that Flexseal would be so useful?!?

Edited to say that this mold was printed with the course/fast setting to allow for a bit of grain in the rubber. Gives the outward facing edge a textured finish instead of the smooth, almost glossy finish of the side that will be adhered to the butt stock.

Mold
Fashion accessory Wallet Leather Rectangle


Cured
Font
 
#21 ·
Sorry...life got in the way yesterday and didn't get to post anything last night. Just de-molded the butt stock rubber piece. Good news is that this method works nearly flawlessly. Bad news is that I severely screwed up the depth of the mold, leaving me with a rather thin piece of rubber that won't do a whole lot for impact cushioning. Will have to de-design the rubber piece to allow for 1 CM or so more of thickness. Who knew that Flexseal would be so useful?!?

Edited to say that this mold was printed with the course/fast setting to allow for a bit of grain in the rubber. Gives the outward facing edge a textured finish instead of the smooth, almost glossy finish of the side that will be adhered to the butt stock.

Mold
View attachment 35385

Cured
View attachment 35386
Ingenious! post up when yer ready to sell em! :)
 
#24 ·
Sorry--said I wasn't going to spam your post, but I haven't gotten my **** together yet to make my own post about the buttstock yet. Just wanted you to know that I am still working on the mold concept.

Got the mold working now. The resin I'm using is also working well (plenty hard, but just the tiniest bit of flex to prevent it from being too brittle/shatter-able). It will also take a dye, but my prototype is just natural. HOWEVER...having issues with air bubbles with my liquid plastic pours. I'm going to have to break out the de-gasser, which I was trying to avoid due to it adding another step to the process. Still, one step closer to finalizing this and getting it past prototype phase.

Glass Plastic Transparency
 
#27 ·
[QUOTE="ReluctantDecoy, post: 2420748, memJust wanted you to know that I am still working on the mold concept.

Got the mold working now. Still, one step closer to finalizing this and getting it past prototype phase.

View attachment 35511 [/QUOTE]

I just want to be clear. I'm ready for one as soon as you are ready to release one :yum:.
 
#25 ·
This seems to be an active thread so Im gonna post a couple random thoughts. Rifles/carbines are not allowed for concealed carry.That's a shame because a thin piece of paracord secures it in your armpit under a coat. Deployable and on target in seconds. The PLR16 is a pistol hence legal. I place the strap around my left arm, over my neck with the grip under my right armpit.
My gen 1 Sub2000 groups are opening up to about 5 inches now. Barrel issues ? Kel-Tec love isn't easy. Loving something perfect ain't love. Only loving something flawed can be called love.
 
#26 · (Edited)
Figured I'd update my slow roll.

Optics Planet has received the first, defective (glass cockeyed and not secure) Holosun they sent me. I'm hoping they honor my request to inspect the replacement before shipping it to me. My Subby landed in Cocoa, FL at the mothership yesterday; she's having a fresh, properly heat treated barrel installed. With luck, the Holosun should be here waiting when she gets home. I bought her 1k police trade-in 147gr gold dots which land tomorrow. Optics will be zero'd for this round. Still no movement on the green laser front, but the Haste took well to the extra voltage and will be harder to displace.

Deployable and on target in seconds.
^THIS is what I love 'bout my Subby. She's an upgrade that carries in a conveniently sized package and she deploys quickly enough to get in the fight. I was a little concerned about the concealment quip - then I saw that your in Chicago. So I understand your focus on preparedness for anything. Mine is an upgrade to my sidearm and I will not be worried about concealment once the deployment decision is forced. Pistol helps me get to base where I'll have 1) cover, 2) reloads and 3) the Subby upgrade option if escape is not a viable option.
 
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#33 · (Edited)
I'm still tracking it. It updated to shipped status on 4.2.18. But, best I can tell, it hasn't left China. USPS does acknowledge the tracking number as a pending event. Last tracking updates were as follows:
2018-04-07 08:33
Fuzhou, leave Fuzhou and send to Fuzhou terminal

2018-04-07 08:33
Fuzhou, leave Fuzhou and send to Chicago.
I can tell you that the promise of 10-20 days shipping was a lie - this is month number 2. At day 21, I opened a ticket and got the response that they were still waiting to get the item I had already paid for. And, evidently, it's a 5 plus day trip from Fuzhou to the Fuzhou Terminal for packages bound for Chicago.

Pretty bad right???

Imagine my opinion of Optics Planet here in the US. I'm approaching a month to get a working Holosun. Once they got my money - they quickly demonstrated a total lack of concern that they have yet to deliver what I paid for a month ago. But, they can send me 5 plus emails a week trying to get deeper in my wallet after having clearly demonstrated their complete lack of concern regarding their active, slowly progressing service failure. Not to be upstaged, laserpointerpro.com has put me on their don't-let-him-get-away web banner rotation and has offered me at least 10 opportunities to buy more at a "discount." These two vendors have done everything in their power to keep me painfully aware that delivery is not one of their priorities, so neither are candidates for more of my hard earned bucks.
 
#34 ·
K ... so ...

The second Holosun landed today. I've edited my previous mention 'cause apparently, the front (muzzle side) glass is cockeyed by design. I learned this after expressing serious exasperation to Zack at Optics Planet. When he asked me to call the manufacturer to confirm the defect ... I headed to google. It seems that I am not alone in my concern, but there is plenty of discussion online regarding this design decision.

So, when my Subby gets home, we'll mount her up and see how she handles herself. Honestly, I am going to submerge it in water to verify IP67 water resistance because I'm having a hard time believing it can be waterproof with the glass cocked this way. Hopefully I'm just one of the ignorant types that wasted my own time sending the first unit back with what I perceived to be a problem. Worst case scenario ... Primary Arms will get to make it right.

So, for anyone keeping score ... I'm neutral regarding Optics Planet. They haven't done anything that will earn my repeat business, but I may be willing to try them again for the right deal.
 
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#44 · (Edited)
Registering on this forum simply to start an argument over what happened on another forum isn't going to happen folks. Buh bye Joe Blow.

Dred, let me know if you need anything else cleaned up. I'm leaving town for the weekend but I'll get word to the admins and we'll delete any other posts you don't want inhere.
 
#45 ·
Word gotten.
Not another off-topic syllable...
Thanks CJ.
 
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