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Sub2000 Red Dot Mounting Options

31K views 42 replies 21 participants last post by  GL9CK 
#1 · (Edited)
I am looking into options to mount an Aimpoint T1 on a Sub2000 I plan on purchasing. I would prefer something that's not offset and that allows the rifle to fold when not in use. So far it looks like I have 3 options:

1. Midwest Industries mount - A lot of people are saying it doesn't hold zero. I've worked in tech support so I know that most of the time the problem is user error not defective equipment, but even some of the users here have had problems so it doesn't inspire confidence.

2. Red Lion Forend - Looks good, seems to have good reviews, but very expensive and looks like a hassle to install.

3. Quick detach mount - Users here have mentioned just installing a short piece of pic rail on one side of the handguard, and using a quick detach mount to move the sight from the side to the top rail after unfolding. This sounds like a good solution, but will a QD mount return to zero when remounted to a polymer rail?
 
#10 ·
I cut away portions of the factory standard handguard, fitted a 2-piece picatinny rail (5 slots, I think), and ensured it sits essentially flush when folded. I used a rather inexpensive QD mount with a Primary Arms red dot.
I use LaRue components (T1, PEQ-2 mounts) on ARs, but the Sub is just a range toy and I'm not going to use mounts that cost a third of the gun.

Tankersteve
 
#18 ·
I cut away portions of the factory standard handguard, fitted a 2-piece picatinny rail (5 slots, I think), and ensured it sits essentially flush when folded. I used a rather inexpensive QD mount with a Primary Arms red dot.
I use LaRue components (T1, PEQ-2 mounts) on ARs, but the Sub is just a range toy and I'm not going to use mounts that cost a third of the gun.

Tankersteve
Could you post a pic? I'm confused as to what constitutes a "2 piece picatinny rail". Did you just drill and screw into a Gen I handguard? Thanks!
 
#11 ·
I bought the MI mount, installed it, and found it would not hold zero. I took it to a gunsmith after burning a couple boxes of ammo jacking with it. All he did was really crank down on the mount to side rail fasteners. It would not hold zero. Took it back to Primary Arms and they said MI was telling everybody the same thing, that it was user error. It's not.

The tension spring in the mount's not strong enough and it's not adjustable, the Mlock attachment destroys the plastic side rail on the inside after a while, and the final deal is the hand rail is just not designed to hold anything on it. There are only 2 fasteners that attach it to the upper receiver (that's what Keltec calls it), which is really only a hinge. You can fix that though by buying aftermarket braces that lock the hand rail to the barrel.

I've looked at all the other options mentioned here. The Red Lion is nice but jacks up the weight by a pound, plus costs over $200 because you have to get their proprietary rail.

The quick disconnect should work ok but good mounts are also pretty expensive, plus you will need to file down the top of the rail. It might be good enough.

There is another option. MCarbo is rumored to be prototyping a top mount that rotates over and to the side, like the Vortex 3X multiplier mount. I've got that on an AR15, it's very sturdy, so waiting on that.
 
#15 ·
Has anyone tried installing a small piece of rail on the Gen 1 plastic Handguard and adding a swing away/tip off like the American Defense Magnifier Swing-Off mount? I think a smaller RD (Primary Arms) would fit into that mount. I think the AD magnifier mount locks into place, but never used one.
 
#20 ·
I run a reflex sight on a high riser w/quick disconnect I ordered from Amazon for under $20, it holds zero out to 25 yards and I remove and install it on every range trip. As mentioned above, I had to file the picatinney slots on my factory hanguard flat as mine also had a slight peak along the seam. Cheap and simple.

The Red Lion rail is pricey but IMHO the best solution. I had one of their rails on a PLR 16 and it was worth the price.
 
#21 ·
I have tried the MI flip mount and also the 1 O’Clock offset method.

Ended up using the MI QD T1 mount with Holosun 403gl and it retains zero perfectly.

Best thing I did was shipped my GEN2 back to Kel-Tec. They replaced almost every part on the gun for free and now my barrel to hand guard fit is excellent. No movement which also helps with retaining zero.
 
#23 ·
Sent it in to have the updated front sight and any other improved parts installed. Mentioned in a note that the hand guard was loose and that I felt it needed to be redesigned as there was no way to tighten it properly given the current design.

Turns out they agreed and it was redesigned. One of the barrel stepdowns was removed. The new style barrel is thicker.

Essentially they put my serialized bolt tube and stock on a new rifle, reinstalled all my aftermarket goodies and shipped it back to me.

Yes, I had filed the top rail. The new rail they gave me does not need it.
 
#24 ·
rpmstl - This helps.

I've had this gun open 4 different times for mods so pretty sure I can't get a new barrel and hand guard, but I'm going to ask Keltec about the redesign vs. the some of the issues I've had, and see what they say. I've just been addressing this stuff with after market parts, particularly the rail issue, as IMO it's just not been well designed for a scope regardless of what it looks like.

Your post is really the 1st I've seen about Keltec replacing the barrel and hand guard as a design issue, so thanks again.
 
#25 · (Edited)
I’m not sure if or how the hand guard
(forend) is different since I’ve never had them side by side but the barrel was revised.

I had a Performance Services handguard stabilizer on my old barrel and this is what the KT tech sent back. Performance Services has since fabbed up a product that fits perfectly on the new barrel. Just installed it this week.



Transparency
 
#27 ·
I’m not sure if or how the hand guard
(forend) is different since I’ve never had them side by side but the barrel was revised.

I had a Performance Services handguard stabilizer on my old barrel and this is what the KT tech sent back. Performance Services has since fabbed up a product that fits perfectly on the new barrel. Just installed it this week.



View attachment 34447
rpmstl - That's what I've got on the sub2k barrel at present. I've emailed Keltec through their website and waiting to hear back.

Odd that Keltec put on just a half though. I guess the hand guard halves fit tight enough that it's pressed down on the barrel?
 
#28 ·
I’m not sure if or how the hand guard
(forend) is different since I’ve never had them side by side but the barrel was revised.

I had a Performance Services handguard stabilizer on my old barrel and this is what the KT tech sent back. Performance Services has since fabbed up a product that fits perfectly on the new barrel. Just installed it this week.



View attachment 34447
RPMSTL - Do you know about how long they had your sub2k?

I emailed them earlier today due to the raised center profile on the rail and just stumbled across this thread. I haven't even had a round through it yet and I wanted to reach out to them before filing down the rail, and based on your experience, I'd rather have them update the fore grip then use a file to make it fit.
 
#29 ·
I've been waiting to post with an update as I've got the same issue.

I emailed Keltec Nov 20th and was told that there was no barrel or hand guard update for the Gen2. I asked if that person was sure. She said yes. I then verbally described what RPMSTL wrote. She then said it was not true. I asked her again and she asked for the link to this forum discussion. Sent that to her (via an external email as you can't post a website address in the internal Keltec webmail) and told her to look at the picture posted. I got an email back yesterday saying she is still waiting on the "supervisor" on this issue. That was after a 6 day delay. All in, this is currently at 11 emails from me and 7 back from Keltec.

For the record, I've got no issues with Keltec or their service. They fixed a CMR30 problem of my brothers asap, and I've got a Sub2000 because I wanted it.
 
#30 ·
I know this thread may be a little stale, but I've opted for #3:


Gun Firearm Rifle Trigger Machine gun


Pinty red/green dot sight, Magpul M-lok (not MOE...M-lok. There's a difference) picatinny rail mounted port and starboard. To collapse the firearm, quick release on the sight, quick mount to a side rail, and collapse.
 
#31 ·
Any updates?

K-T had my gun for only a week or so. Due to shipping problems with Fedex and my FFL, it ended up taking 7 weeks door to door. FedEx had it for at least 2 weeks.

Yes, one half of my original PS barrel clamp fits over the barrel but the pair does not close around the barrel. A gap remains. The new clamp Performance sent me fit perfect.

Odd they said there is not a revised barrel, especially since I have one.
 
#32 ·
Here's the latest. Cut and paste below

Customer Service Representative
said about 4 day(s) ago
Sorry, I still haven't heard back on it. I'd recommend sending the rifle in to us as the other fellow did and we'll see if the gunsmith can't do the same for you. That's the best I know to offer at this time.

Also, you might want to include the link or a copy of the forum page in the box for reference.

If you’re in the US, please fill out the red info below, print it and include in box with repair and purchase receipt for gunsmith. If it’s shipped from a dealer, it must be returned there.

Person or Business Name:

Shipping address where someone can sign for it:
Contact phone #:
Email address for tracking #:
Model and serial #:
Reason for sending it in:
Brand and grain of ammo, if applicable:
Ticket #:
Original owner with purchase receipt to include with repair?
List any accessories or mags being sent in with it that you want back:

Please Note!
· If you’re in the US, please send the firearm to us for service through a dealer or UPS/FedEx with tracking #.
· Please include a copy of the purchase receipt even if you already emailed it to a tech in order to qualify for warranty. If you cannot supply the purchase receipt for the firearm (or are not original owner), it will be considered non-warranty and there will be approximately $25 in return shipping fees and might be a $40 labor fee.

My reply...

said about 22 hour(s) ago
Sir or Mam,
Thanks for this reply. I've been thinking about this some before replying.

I'm not the original owner of this gun, so 2 way shipping, insurance, and probably labor will run around 100 dollars, and that for maybe a fix that Keltec won't confirm exists.

I guess I'd like to know first before spending the money. Is there a different barrel? Is there a different and updated hand guard that fits the barrel better, and does not require filing the top rail to get a flat surface? Does the combination of the updated barrel and hand guard fit more tightly together so there is minimal flex?

If the answer to these questions is yes, I'm sending in my Keltec Sub2000.

Not looking to make any issues on this, just trying to fix this gun so I can use an optic and hold zero. I know you guys have a reputation for good service. You handled an issue on my brother's CMR30 perfectly.

Please let me know.

Thanks,
 
#35 ·
Here's the latest. Cut and paste below

Customer Service Representative
said about 4 day(s) ago
Sorry, I still haven't heard back on it. I'd recommend sending the rifle in to us as the other fellow did and we'll see if the gunsmith can't do the same for you. That's the best I know to offer at this time.

Also, you might want to include the link or a copy of the forum page in the box for reference.

If you’re in the US, please fill out the red info below, print it and include in box with repair and purchase receipt for gunsmith. If it’s shipped from a dealer, it must be returned there.

Person or Business Name:

Shipping address where someone can sign for it:
Contact phone #:
Email address for tracking #:
Model and serial #:
Reason for sending it in:
Brand and grain of ammo, if applicable:
Ticket #:
Original owner with purchase receipt to include with repair?
List any accessories or mags being sent in with it that you want back:

Please Note!
· If you’re in the US, please send the firearm to us for service through a dealer or UPS/FedEx with tracking #.
· Please include a copy of the purchase receipt even if you already emailed it to a tech in order to qualify for warranty. If you cannot supply the purchase receipt for the firearm (or are not original owner), it will be considered non-warranty and there will be approximately $25 in return shipping fees and might be a $40 labor fee.

My reply...

said about 22 hour(s) ago
Sir or Mam,
Thanks for this reply. I've been thinking about this some before replying.

I'm not the original owner of this gun, so 2 way shipping, insurance, and probably labor will run around 100 dollars, and that for maybe a fix that Keltec won't confirm exists.

I guess I'd like to know first before spending the money. Is there a different barrel? Is there a different and updated hand guard that fits the barrel better, and does not require filing the top rail to get a flat surface? Does the combination of the updated barrel and hand guard fit more tightly together so there is minimal flex?

If the answer to these questions is yes, I'm sending in my Keltec Sub2000.

Not looking to make any issues on this, just trying to fix this gun so I can use an optic and hold zero. I know you guys have a reputation for good service. You handled an issue on my brother's CMR30 perfectly.

Please let me know.

Thanks,
Has there been update to this? Have been wanting to mod my rail but don't want to spend the time if this option is out there.

I'm curios to see any photos of new rail, upgrades.

The convexed rails were the only thing that really disappointed me with the rifle.
 
#33 · (Edited)
The only free location for top mounting is the end of the muzzle on top the front sight. Would it be possible to build a mount for an RMR on top of the front sight. I do not own a sub-2000 and so have no idea if how feasible this is. They are used commonly for mounting on combat handguns and are tiny. I am hoping with the current gun market glut to maybe buy a sub2000. To date I have never seen an sub2000 since they seem to sell like hotcakes and are never in stock.
Below RMR on a pistol slide and sub-2000 with free area shown at muzzle's end.




Firearm Gun Trigger Rifle Air gun
 

Attachments

#34 ·
The only free location for top mounting is the end of the muzzle on top the front sight. Would it be possible to build a mount for an RMR on top of the front sight. I do not own a sub-2000 and so have no idea if how feasible this is. They are used commonly for mounting on combat handguns and are tiny. I am hoping with the current gun market glut to maybe buy a sub2000. To date I have never seen an sub2000 since they seem to sell like hotcakes and are never in stock.
Below RMR on a pistol slide and sub-2000 with free area shown at muzzle's end.




View attachment 34634
I'll take a shot at this... I'm 6' 5" so have the stock at the end position. Just fits better. The front sight fits inside the top of the stock in this configuration.

Always wondered how well I'd shoot a pistol with one of these though. My eyes are not great so I need high contrast targets at 25 yds. Technology is a great equalizer.
 
#36 ·
I've no resolution. Could post 4 or 5 more Keltec responses but latest was the customer rep told me a gunsmith would call me. That was about 3 or 4 days ago and I've yet to receive a call.

Don't want to speculate too much but thinking about this a little, it make business sense to me that Keltec would want to address this stuff a case at a time rather than say they have made a design change. I acknowledge that least part of my issue pursuing a stable rail mounted optic is not being able to use the sights as I'm pretty tall.
 
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