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Author Topic:   Kel-Tec Problems
RiCart
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Posts: 5
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Registered: Dec 2001

posted December 14, 2001 07:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for RiCart     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by RiCart      
I have owned K-T P32's for some time, as well as NAA Guardians and a great many other guns. I post often on the NAA site. I have worked in a large gun dealership and am very versed in P32 sales, this store selling a dozen or so some months. The store has 2 full time gunsmiths. The store will either send problem guns back to the makers and/or fix them on location. Of all the K-T P32's they have sold, very few have been returned for problems. One of these was from a customer pulling the trigger while the slide was off and the hammer block had to be reset. Seemingly, many that post on this board think K-T is the only gun that gives problems. How do you think this store can affort to keep 2 gunsmiths busy? Why are the racks always filled with gun repairs? Guns break, period. I have seen high dollar guns come out of the box and not function. As close as I can determine, K-T has made and sold more of a single model gun (P32) in a couple of years than any other model firearm made with the possible exception of models for police and/or military contracts, so there is room for problems. For the cry babies on this board, go to work for a large gun dealer for a couple of years and get some knowledge on what you are talking about, then talk. This way you can see the real world of guns for yourself, not what you are told or experience from one or two guns.

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Zoom Wilson
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Posts: 123
From:SC, USA
Registered: Feb 2001

posted December 14, 2001 01:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Zoom Wilson   Click Here to Email Zoom Wilson     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by Zoom Wilson      
I guess the "Church of Kel-Tec" is now open. Thanks for the sermon.

You're not going to easily convince us that "very few have been returned for problems." When I can go to the local indoor range, and see one person after another disgusted with Kel-Tec, what am I supposed to believe? BTW, this indoor range is at a gun dealer that stopped selling Kel-Tec's. They stopped, because, according to the manager, they couldn't afford to keep losing repeat customers. The manager said that most weeks, the P-32 was their best selling model, so your statement "K-T has made and sold more of a single model gun (P32) in a couple of years than any other model firearm made..." certainly sounds true. I see a lot of Kel-Tec's at their range, so that's more proof of how well Kel-Tec is doing in the market. The other two dealers I shop at will no longer sell Kel-Tec's, but they still sell all of the Jennings (yucks) 9mm's they can get their hands on. I take a dealer's advise seriously when they feel they need to recommend a much cheaper model over the P-11. What does that tell you of their opinion of the P-11?z

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yzguy
Member

Posts: 57
From:Fl
Registered: Oct 2001

posted December 14, 2001 04:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yzguy   Click Here to Email yzguy     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by yzguy      
I have not heard a bad report in person yet about the p-32 or p-11 (I mean a dissatified customer or dealer). I talked to people at gun shows, gun shops and ranges. More than once a p-32 was in someones pocket. I do believe (as most do) that some have problems and that doing some work to it yourself will make it a better gun, but I still like my p-32 and p-11 so far.

I'm sure some have had bad experences, but I am not one of them.

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Vic Ryan
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Posts: 17
From:Potosi,TX,USA
Registered: Aug 2001

posted December 14, 2001 10:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Vic Ryan     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by Vic Ryan      
Never will understand why someone would post 117 times about a piece of equipment they obviously think very little about. I guess some folks just have a lot of spare time on their hands.

I've bought 3 P-11s, 2 P-32s and plan on getting another P-32 soon. After the first P-11 the Sig 228 and the mega-bucks Wilson 1911 were retired from their carry status and I've never regreted it one bit.

Amen

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RiCart
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Posts: 5
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Registered: Dec 2001

posted December 14, 2001 11:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RiCart     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by RiCart      
Hi Zoom, I've been implicated in many things, but holding church services has never been among them. Frankly, I do not find it necessary to convince anyone of what I said. As I stated, I worked there, saw what comes in and wrote them up for repairs. Please excuse me if I find your rationalization of seeing so many people on the range upset with the P32. It they are so upset, why do they keep shooting them instead of simply getting rid of them? I would guess that P32 sales are in the neighborhood of 60,000+ by now. Guns are sold mostly by 1. Dealer recomendation, 2. word of mouth, and 3. Magazine write up's. Now, be realistic, how do they sell so many guns if so many people are not happy with them? Frankly, I think a few unhappy buyers such as yourself have found this board and are blowing the entire Kel-Tec P32 problems out of proportion. I back this opinion up with the following. I think your profile indicated you have been on this board for something like 10 months. If you have been having P32 problems for that long and still have the gun, may I say you are a very slow learner. I fail to see how any rational person would keep a problem gun 10 months, or even one month for that matter.

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Zoom Wilson
Member

Posts: 123
From:SC, USA
Registered: Feb 2001

posted December 15, 2001 12:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Zoom Wilson   Click Here to Email Zoom Wilson     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by Zoom Wilson      
quote:
Frankly, I do not find it necessary to convince anyone of what I said.

I didn't mean to imply that you had to, or that I had anything against you if you did or didn't.

If you do want to convince us (well, me anyway), ask a few people, that you sold a P-32 to, about their experience. I don't mean a superficial question like "How ya' like?" Rather, something more substantial, like "About how many rounds have you put through it so far? About how many problems (jams) did you have?" I would be very interested in hearing the results from that. I think the assumption that if you don't see the pistol again, therefore it must be fine, might not be a good one. I wrote some software for a several auto dealer's service departments. The JD Powers ratings of initial quality had almost nothing to do with the number of trips the customer made to the dealership's service department. The more expensive models averaged more trips back no matter what the JD Powers rating. You're going to hear back from the people who have trouble with an expensive, for example, Kimber much more often than with a cheaper pistol.

quote:
Guns are sold mostly by...

I'll add for the P-32:

4) Price - I might just live in a poor area, but most customers I see in gun shops gravitate towards the cheaper guns. In the shop I bought my P-32 from, I don't think I've ever seen anyone touch any of their Kimber's, but I've seen almost all of the sub-$300 pistols handled regularly.

5) Size - The biggest selling point of the P-32 is the excellent (lack of) size and weight.

In my experience, the two reasons I listed above are more important for the sales of P-32's than the three you listed. Of course, you might work in a very nice shop with more affluent customers, so the priorities you see could be different.

quote:
I fail to see how any rational person would keep a problem gun 10 months, or even one month for that matter.

I disagree with you on the above. While I have been tempted to "cut bait," the more time and money I put into this, the more determined I get. Yes, I'm stubborn. My P-32 is the only pistol I have ever owned, so I'm a little attached to it. Also, even with the problems, I can't ignore the fact that if I designed a pistol for concealed carry, it wouldn't be much different from the P-32.

From RiCart's first post:

quote:
The store will either send problem guns back to the makers and/or fix them on location.

It sounds like you guys are a much more professional operation than the local dealers I've bought from. I assume you guys use USPS, while us peons have to use UPS next day air, so you guys save your customer a lot of money on shipping. If I had a local dealer that had service like that, I wouldn't buy from anyone else.

RiCart, if you don't mind me asking, do you have any other pistols that you recommend to your customers that are of a comparable size (especially thickness) and weight to the P-32?z

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RiCart
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Registered: Dec 2001

posted December 16, 2001 08:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for RiCart     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by RiCart      
Hi again, Didn't really mean anything re convincing anyone, a short time of military and a lifetime of law enforcement has left me somewhat blunt and lacking 'bedside' manners at times. I am now fully retired from any kind of work, however, I still visit the store twice a week and visit my old co-workers and the KT 32, Kimbers, and single action guns (cowboy action shooting( come up as those are at this time the best sellers. The store sells a condiderable amout of .32 ammo, so, someone is shooting it up, and, considering the number of P32's sold, I must assume they are getting their fair share. Most of us that work(ed) in the store, (many of us being retired LEO) carry a gun and back when the mini .32's came out, we went to them. As the See Camp was quite rare, and pricy, when the NAA Grardian came out, weveral bought them. They proved heavy, somewhat pricy, and as most mini autos, not always reliable. The same proved so with the Beretta Tomcat amd Colt Pony, a .380 no longer made. NAA usually got the Guardian working after a trip back to the factory, but, it was still heavy and somewhat pricy. Then, came the P32, light, thin, and, to most of us that sold guns, dependable. Sales on the other minis dropped. Considering the number of P32's made to the other model's mentioned, this drop in sales was not simply local. Heavy sales indicate .32 ammo is being used somewhere and K-T is the biggest seller. As for as recommending another gun the approximate size and weight of the K-T, there is nothing. The .32 Guardian is a great gun, once set up properly, but, heavy. The Tomcat?, It's een improved, but, in my opinion for a pocket pistol it looks like I'm trying to smuggle a potato. Several of my friends carry See Camps and swear by them, but the wait is long and the price scalping is terrible. I never got too excited over the See Camp for those reasons. However, knowing the right people has it's strong points and last week I received notification that I could have one in less than 30 days and at the suggested retail price, so, I took the offer. Several of my friends have See Camps and swear by them. By the way, I have owned at least one or more of the above guns with the exception of the See Camp.

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scromer
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Posts: 77
From:Greenville, SC, USA
Registered: Dec 2000

posted December 18, 2001 09:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for scromer   Click Here to Email scromer     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by scromer      
Zoom,

Where is the indoor range in the Upstate? I live in Greenville and work in Easley.

SDC

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"I think we have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious." - Thomas Jefferson - Letter to William Ludlow, 1824

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Zoom Wilson
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Posts: 123
From:SC, USA
Registered: Feb 2001

posted December 19, 2001 05:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Zoom Wilson   Click Here to Email Zoom Wilson     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by Zoom Wilson      
scromer, there used to be one in Greenville, but it closed after the owner passed away. I've been driving to Shooter's Choice on 378 in West Columbia. It's about 100 miles each way from downtown Greenville.z

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Gecko10
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Registered: Dec 2001

posted December 19, 2001 08:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gecko10   Click Here to Email Gecko10     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by Gecko10      
RiCart:

I too am retired (military), but I do some consulting work for a Federal Law Enforcement Agency (not the BATF so everyone relax). When I first started to look for a mouse gun I was really suprized how many of our agents had a P32 in their pockets.

None of them reported any problems with them other than a hiccup or two for the first 200 rds or so.

In the community where I live (pop. about 125k) there are 7 reputable gun shops. Of these 7 only 3 have a P32 in stock. Prices here range from $339 - $289. Those that don't have them in stock say that thier cost is now $199 - $299. Also, they said that their distrubutors cannot meet the demand right now and that only one or two of them had any on hand to ship.

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[This message has been edited by Gecko10 (edited December 19, 2001).]

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jeffcare
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Posts: 58
From:Suffolk, Va. USA
Registered: Mar 2001

posted December 19, 2001 12:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jeffcare     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by jeffcare      
Zoom, you are right and the funny thing is that until others have problems with their KT's they will vehemently fight because if they agree with us then they willhave to admit that they were wrong. All of us as men know that it is hard to finally admit that we were wrong.

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Jeff Davis

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lloveless
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Posts: 21
From:woodbury, tn
Registered: Nov 2001

posted December 19, 2001 01:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lloveless   Click Here to Email lloveless     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by lloveless      
Jeff and zoom,
Ya'll figure that if 5 people have problems then everyone has problems. I feel sorry for the problems you have. There are somewhere around 50,000 plus of us that do not. Find your problem and fix it.

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Michigun
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Posts: 101
From:Michigan, USA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted December 19, 2001 02:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Michigun     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by Michigun   Visit Michigun's Homepage!   
quote:
Originally posted by jeffcare:
Zoom, you are right and the funny thing is that until others have problems with their KT's they will vehemently fight because if they agree with us then they willhave to admit that they were wrong. All of us as men know that it is hard to finally admit that we were wrong.


What are you, 2 years old or something?

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Detroit, the city that drives the world...

Live free or die!!!
Niner #76

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Michigun
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Posts: 101
From:Michigan, USA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted December 19, 2001 02:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Michigun     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by Michigun   Visit Michigun's Homepage!   
quote:
Originally posted by Zoom Wilson:
My P-32 is the only pistol I have ever owned

This explains a lot... thanks for clearing that up!

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Detroit, the city that drives the world...

Live free or die!!!
Niner #76

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sorenso
Member

Posts: 50
From: Ill USA
Registered: Dec 2000

posted December 19, 2001 04:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sorenso     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by sorenso      
Zoom .As a first time gun the P-32 may not have been right for you in the first place. Santa needs to put a revolver in your stocking this year.There comes a point when stubborn turns into just plain "hard headed".
Your Dealer can and should have sent your P-32 USPS, so that you saved a few $$'s.Did you ask him to return them to the factory for you? Did you ask for any guidance from your dealer as to what type of firearm to buy? I do have sympathy for you and the rest of the people that have KT's that don't work. I personaly have never had a problem with the KT's I own.
Two P 32's and a P 11, over 500 rounds thru each. Not so much as a burp out of any of them except for some rimlock associated with ammo, not the gun. If I would have had your problems with my guns I would be bitching as much as you. I don't want to sound insensitive to your problems.But I don't understand how you could have justified spending over $800 on a $250 gun no matter attatched you got to it. Don't "cut bait" - cut loose. MERRY CHRISTMAS

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Zoom Wilson
Member

Posts: 123
From:SC, USA
Registered: Feb 2001

posted December 20, 2001 11:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Zoom Wilson   Click Here to Email Zoom Wilson     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by Zoom Wilson      
quote:
As a first time gun, the P-32 may not have been right for you in the first place

First time gun? I've put together over two dozen AR-15 and FAL rifles for friends. The FAL's generally required a lot of Dremel work, and the M-16 parts required a lot of Dremel work to make them legal. For a local store, I converted about four-dozen AK's from single-stack's to 922(r) legal (w/ 6 US parts) double-stacks. That required some trigger work, new stock parts, and some Dremel work on the receiver. I'm working on my fourth 1911 from parts so far. The one I'm currently working on is from an 80% frame. Also, I've done more than a fair share of work on 50+ year-old bolt-action rifles. This is also why I'm frustrated with myself. I've made plenty of rifles work, that probably shouldn't have, and I'm batting a zero with my P-32.

The reason I waited so long in life before buying a pistol was that for too long, I believed my father's and the army's indoctrination that pistols were useless. The only reason the P-32 is the only pistol I currently own is because of money.

quote:
Your Dealer can and should have sent your P-32 USPS, so that you saved a few $$'s.

Yes, but after Kel-Tec screwed my dealer by mailing a pistol directly back to the owner after replacing the frame with one with a different serial number (thus bypassing state registration), the dealer won't do that any longer.
quote:
Santa needs to put a revolver in your stocking this year.

I agree with RiCart's potato comment. Snubbie revolvers feel like a potato in my pocket. That's why I appreciate the thinness of a P-32. Although I will agree that a revolver is the best choice for a first-time pistol owner.
quote:
But I don't understand how you could have justified spending over $800 on a $250 gun no matter attatched you got to it.

Hindsight is 20/20. When you're spending a little here and there, it doesn't seem too bad. Now that I've added it up, I'm sick. Add-in the fact that the state police here aren't processing CWP applications, even though we're a shall-issue state, I don't have a reason to own a small pistol. So, it's $800 for a $250 pistol that I can't even carry. Understand the frustration?

And, Merry Christmas.z

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bigboar
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Posts: 24
From:Austin, Tx, Texas (It's like a whole other country)
Registered: Oct 2001

posted December 20, 2001 01:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bigboar     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by bigboar   Visit bigboar's Homepage!   
Lets start some real sh*t. On one page your giving a new person advice on how to disassymble the gun and on another you talking about not being able to get it to work? If you don't know how to make it work maybe you shouldn't be giving any advice on the operation, care, or feeing of this little beast.
Not the brightest light in the string, eh? It took you only 50 years to figure the Army was wrong? Maybe in another 50 years you'll have your P32 working.
Shake the dead rat from around your neck already.
Russ

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Fast Attack Vet, any one else?

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sorenso
Member

Posts: 50
From: Ill USA
Registered: Dec 2000

posted December 20, 2001 01:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sorenso     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by sorenso      
Sorry Zoom! I live in Illinois and they don't even have CCW permits. I guess we're both stuck.

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