Come help us Launch CZTalk.com - Free Decals!
KTOG - Kel Tec Owners Group Forum > Other > Accessories > Custom, Commercial, & Military Knives by RCmodel
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-14-2012, 01:37 AM   #81
rcmodel
Grand Poobah
 
rcmodel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Eastern Kansas
Posts: 9,364
Liked 80 Times on 59 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default WWII - Theater Knives

So what’s a Theater Knife you might ask?
No, it’s not a fighting knife you take to the Movies or the Opera.

The term Theater Knife was coined by collectors after WWII, and used to describe knives made by soldiers, sailors & airmen, or by civilian hobbyists, and sent to the GI’s overseas in the Pacific or European Theater of operations.

As such, Theater Knives are found ranging in quality from very crude, to pretty darn good, as these examples illustrate.

The top one has a a nicely ground high carbon steel blade with cast aluminum guard & pommel, and sheet aluminum & fancy grain hardwood handle.

The bottom one is double edge dagger with copper & aircraft Plexiglas handle washers, held on with a simple rusty roll-pin.

I made the sheath for it because it kept falling off the display stand and trying to stab me in the foot every time I walked by it!
I think it's possessed by an angry WWII spirit!



Still another similar to the top one, but not as skillfully ground blade.



And the last one a 8” sticker with a brazed on tang with a 1928 Indian Head Nickel inlayed in the butt.
I made the sheath for it too, just for self-preservation in the gun room when I went in there with it.





They will be found with cast aluminum handles, colorful Plexiglas washers, aircraft aluminum or shell casing brass washer spacer handles.

And about anything else a GI in Theater, or a stateside hobbyist making knives for the war effort could scrounge up during rationing in WWII to make a knife out of.

I have owned a lot of them over the years, but they never really interested me all that much if I couldn't identify who made them or who used them.

And they are seldom if ever blade marked by the maker.
And the leather sheaths that might have been unit or name marked by the owner have rotted off of them by now.

So that's all I got.
You just can’t keep them all!

rc

__________________

Choot'em Lizabet! Choot'em!!


Last edited by rcmodel; 11-14-2012 at 01:52 AM.
rcmodel is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-14-2012, 02:04 AM   #82
haugrdr
Grand Poobah
KOG_MODERATOR.png
 
haugrdr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Daytona Beach
Posts: 11,017
Liked 608 Times on 513 Posts
Likes Given: 343

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcmodel View Post
Great!

But if you want a real WWII Ka-Bar?
Be prepaired to spend $100 for a ratty one, up to $300+ or more for a real one in excellent condition.
Collectors are buying the real WWII Ka-Bars faster then they come on the market.

But as I mentioned in the USN MKII post, the real GI Issue Ka-Bar was probably a USN MKII, made 99% of the time by Camillus and blade (early) or guard marked (later) as such.

If you want a real WWII USN MKII, it will be in a plain brown leather sheath.
It will not be stamped with USMC, or anything else.
Yup, it does. The one I looked at has USN stamped on the blade next to the handle, blade looked on good, hadn't been sharpened too much or anything, no nicks but pretty tarnished looking. The sheath was plain brown leather and in good shape. I thought the knife and sheath looked really good to me. Wish I had of taken a pic of it...maybe I will tomorrow.

They had a priced at $159.00 but I didn't dicker yet.

Looked like the top one in your pic, maybe the sheath was in a little nicer shape.

__________________
Click this link:

PIZZA for Kel Tec!

Rick
Occupation: Retired
Lifestyle: Biker
"It is...what it is"

Last edited by haugrdr; 11-14-2012 at 02:13 AM.
haugrdr is online now  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-14-2012, 02:52 AM   #83
rcmodel
Grand Poobah
 
rcmodel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Eastern Kansas
Posts: 9,364
Liked 80 Times on 59 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

Quote:
They had a priced at $159.00 but I didn't dicker yet.
If it's a Camillus, I'd wave a $100 dollar bill in their face, and walk away if they don't take it.

If it's really a USN (Not USMC) marked Ka-Bar?
Maybe, but try for $140 - $150 tops.

There are more of them out there where that one came from, for less then $159.00.

A real WWII, USMC blade marked Ka-Bar would or should easily be worth $159+ in reasonably good condition I would think.

But probably not a USN marked one.

Exact SAME knife though, if you just want to use it.

Go to Ebay and do a completed auction history search of Ka-Bars & USN MKII's to see what they are selling for now.

I'm kinda out of touch with the current collector market as I haven't been buying any more lately.

rc
__________________

Choot'em Lizabet! Choot'em!!


Last edited by rcmodel; 11-14-2012 at 03:11 AM.
rcmodel is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-14-2012, 04:35 PM   #84
rcmodel
Grand Poobah
 
rcmodel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Eastern Kansas
Posts: 9,364
Liked 80 Times on 59 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default WWI - WWII – M-1917 Bolo

A revision of the M-1910 Bolo, the M-1917 was issued to units for use in brush clearing around camps, clearing firing zones by machinegun crews, and in trench warfare fighting.

This one is blade marked on the right side U.S. MOD 1917 C.T. and on the left side A.C. CO. CHICAGO 1918 (American Cutlery Co.).

Beginning with the M-1910, the M-1917 was the same heavy knife (1 lb. 5 oz.) with a 10 ¼” convex / flat ground blade.
Walnut scales are attached with two slotted through-bolts and countersunk serrated nuts in the left scale.

The rear 3" of the blade is V-ground forming a short section of double-grind edge, but from there foreword it is flat ground on the left side of the blade and convex ground on the right.
Why? I have no idea, unless it was for use cutting up close to the ricasso as a draw knife for stripping bark, or for detail cutting when whittling stake points and such

Whereas the Springfield M-1910 Bolo had a push button sheath catch similar to the M-1905 Springfield bayonet, it was dropped on the later M-1917 models shortly after production begin.
It really wasn’t needed to retain the heavy Bolo in it's sheath, it cost more to produce, and it wore holes in your hand when the Bolo was actually used as intended.

The M-1910 Bolo was made at Springfield Armory to very high military standards, and was very highly fit & finished.

It was found by Plumb Tools that they could produce the same knife to less than Springfield Armory finish standards for less cost, and the less expensive Bolo would be just as good a tool for a solders use.
Thus the M-1917 Bolo was born.

Then another change soon followed.
In all prior models of the M-1910 and M-1917, the pommel was made separate from the blade.
Then after the guard was slipped on, the pommel was double-pinned and brazed to the tang.

The M-1917 C.T. model skipped all that. (C.T. = Commercial Tolerances)
Instead of a separate pommel, it was forged integral with the blade & tang.
Then the guard was stamped out with a split on the right side, slipped over the tang, bent shut, and welded back together.

That reduced the cost still further from $4.92 per unit for the M-1917 to a low of $1.65 ea. for the M-1917 C.T. as shown here.







Various sheaths and scabbards were used over the years.
A typical one would be made with a wood liner, covered in O.D. canvas, and tipped with leather. The top had a Canvas loop with a pistol belt hanger wire attached.
By 1918 a sheet-metal scabbard painted O.D. green was often used.
This one was missing the scabbard when I bought it at a flea market for $5.00.

Still in use early in WWII, it was soon found the M-1917 Bolo really wasn’t very good at chopping through jungle at all, and it was replaced with the M-1942 18” Machete.

rc

__________________

Choot'em Lizabet! Choot'em!!

rcmodel is offline  
lklawson Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-14-2012, 05:01 PM   #85
rcmodel
Grand Poobah
 
rcmodel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Eastern Kansas
Posts: 9,364
Liked 80 Times on 59 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default WWII – Vietnam – Machetes

After the M-1917 Bolo was declared obsolete early in WWII, the M-1942 18” Machete replaced it.

The one at the top is a USN MKI 24” machete. Also more commonly seen with a 26” blade.
It was made by Legitimus Collins, Co. and has a green horn handle.
(Green horn was obtained from Germany & South America.)
As such, only the earliest Collins military machetes will be found with green horn handles.

The middle one is a U.S. M-1942 18” Machete.
It is blade marked LEGITIMUS COLLINS & Co. 1945.
It has a black plastic handle and came to me in a O.D. green canvas sheath marked U.S. HOYT 1944.

The bottom one is a Vietnam era U.S. Ontario Knife Co. marked blade.
The self-sharpening soft plastic scabbard is marked OKAW – 1967.



M-1942 machete & scabbard:


M-1942 blade & sheath markings:


Vietnam era machete blade mark:


Sharpener in carry position:


Sharpener swung against blade:


Throughout WWII machetes were made by Legitimus Collins, Queen City, Diston, True Temper, Clyde, Ontario, and Marsden, Sydney Australia, and possibly other companies.

Handles are found made from green horn, green plastic, black plastic, mottled brown plastic, and green painted hardwood.

They were issued and used by all branches of service and even included in the larger survival kits.

Note: On the surface, a 24” or 26” machete might seem like a good idea.
But in actual practice I find them unwieldy and tiring to use very long.
And they don’t really cut brush & such as well as the shorter 18” model, for me at least.
The 18” model is much easier for the common man to swing all day.

But I suppose it could have something to do with the fact I can't do one arm push-up's till they tell me to stop anymore either!

rc

__________________

Choot'em Lizabet! Choot'em!!


Last edited by rcmodel; 11-14-2012 at 05:13 PM.
rcmodel is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-15-2012, 05:25 PM   #86
rcmodel
Grand Poobah
 
rcmodel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Eastern Kansas
Posts: 9,364
Liked 80 Times on 59 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default USN Mk3 MOD O General Purpose Knife

Made by Ontario.
6" blade with a saw-tooth spine.

Often described and sold as a “Vietnam combat knife” or “Navy SEAL knife” or "Navy Divers knife".
They are none of the above.

It hadn’t been invented yet during Vietnam, and the SEALS and other divers may have used it, but so did a whole lot of other ordinary GI’s.

They were simply designed as the replacement for the time tested USN MKII (Ka-Bar) as the general purpose Fighting/Utility Knife.

At any rate, the knife was a failure as a combat, utility, or dive knife, and only used for a short time in the 1980’s & 90’s before it was replaced.

This one?
The seller had five of them on eBay listed as a Ca-Bar’s, with a “buy it now” price of $40.00 ea.
Nobody found the mispelled Ka-Bar listing, they got no bids at all, I bought two of them for $20 ea. and got the pick of the litter.

According to the seller, a retired Navy man, a bunch of them were in a box of junk he bought at the surplus sale from the New London CT USN Submarine Scuba Pre-Training school after it was closed down there and moved to Panama City Florida.

He told me most all of them except the five he was selling had the points broken off, as almost all will have sooner or later if used by real divers.

This knife has 03 scratched on the blade & sheath. The other one had 05 scratched on it.
They were supposedly rack numbers used to help the instructors keep track of them when the students turned them back in.

He also told me the divers hated them because the points broke easily, and they corroded to the sheath springs when constantly exposed to salt water.
To the point you couldn't get them out of the sheath unless they spent a lot of time cleaning & maintaining them.

Anyway, whoever designed a combat, utility, or "dive knife" with such a fine needle sharp point like that is beyond me????
But the whole blade design looks an awful lot like a Russian AK-47 bayonet!



An interesting thing about the USN Mk3 MOD O Knife is that they are almost completely non-magnetic, although never certified as such.
A magnet will not stick to this one, and it will not even wiggle a magnetic compass needle when in contact with it.
Magnetically fused mines and magnetic knives don't play well together I guess.

Another feature is that the handle and steel butt cap are electrically insulated from the blade & guard.


IMO: If they wanted to replace the time-tested USN MKII (Ka-Bar) combat/utility knife?
They should have just up-dated the USN MKII with a stainless black blade, a rot proof synthetic bayonet handle, and a synthetic sheath!

Pretty much such a knife was already available from Ka-Bar, Ontario, and others, for a lot less money than the Mk3 MOD O + the M9 bayonet cost the tax payers I betcha.

Oh wait?
The marines did just that with the OKC-3S Bayonet they now use.

http://www.ontario-knife-store.com/okc3s-marine-bayonet/

rc

__________________

Choot'em Lizabet! Choot'em!!

rcmodel is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-16-2012, 01:04 AM   #87
rcmodel
Grand Poobah
 
rcmodel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Eastern Kansas
Posts: 9,364
Liked 80 Times on 59 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default DAN-D Belt Buckle Push Dagger

I bought this one at a flea market for .50 cents years ago.

Marked DAN-D Yuma AZ with a cloverleaf trademark.
Daniel Dennehy, known as DAN-D knives with the shamrock logo was a member of the Knife Makers Guild. He passed away in 2011.
On of these belt buckle daggers recently sold for $795!
http://www.arizonacustomknives.com/Push-Dagger-w-Belt-by-Dan-Dennehy.aspx

The knife has a 3 ¾” double edge blade, ground concave on the back.
It is expertly ground, fitted, and finished.

The handmade brass buckle has a twisted wire edge, and a polished stone contoured to fit the palm of the hand.
In all, it provides a very secure grip and would be an effective push-dagger.






I never had the special belt / sheath for it, and have no desire to get one.

1. The buckle knife would be illegal when concealed inside a belt in most jurisdictions in the country.

2. I would have to unbuckle my pants to get the knife out if I ever did have to use it.

3. That would result in my pants falling down.

4. And then I would have to do the Bunny Hop to run away!

rc

__________________

Choot'em Lizabet! Choot'em!!


Last edited by rcmodel; 11-16-2012 at 03:13 PM.
rcmodel is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-16-2012, 05:25 PM   #88
rcmodel
Grand Poobah
 
rcmodel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Eastern Kansas
Posts: 9,364
Liked 80 Times on 59 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default Gerber MK-I and MK-II’s

If a knife could represent a war to me?
The M-1918 Mark I brass knuckle trench knife would be WWI.
Perhaps the M3 Trench knife & Ka-Bar would best represent WWII & Korea.

But for me at least, the Gerber MKII just screams Vietnam.



They were introduced in 1966, and every GI I knew then wanted one.
The problem was, there just were never enough of them to go around.
Every time a shipment came into a PX, they were all sold before they got done putting them on the shelf.




Initial production was only 1,000 knives in 1966, and never exceeded 4,500 to 5,000 per year from 1968 until 1975.
By then the Vietnam war was over.

By that time, the Peaceniks had firm control of the news media and the country's thought process, so Gerber added serrations, and changed the advertising from a deadly Combat / Fighting knife to a more acceptable Survival knife.

Gerber continued production several more years, reaching a high of 12,000+ in 1978, and another high of 15,809 in 1980.

In all, there were so many variations made the Gerber MKII has become a collector “specialty” for some knife collectors.
Since they were all serial numbered, the year of manufacture can be pinned down exactly, and that adds interest to collectors.

Early knives were made with a sprayed molten steel grip surface called “Cats Tongue” in Grey & black.
Later models had something called “Armor Hide”, also in Grey & Black.
Divers models were made with orange & yellow handles.

Early knives had a canted blade angle to the grip of 5° , 10°, and 15° degree to one side at various times.
It was purported to be for a better blade angle when held in a fencing grip.
But Gerber got so many complaints about the blades being "bent", they soon stopped doing it.
They also all had the signature wasp waste blade shape with no serrations.
Later "survival" knives had serrations, and later still became straight blades without the wasp waist shape.
And IMO, they just lost all the visual appeal of the early knife.

Blade serrations were at first 14 Teeth per inch but clogged easily.
They were later changed to a courser 8 TPI that worked much better.
Some of the Divers knives were fully serrated on one edge.
These older Gerber MK’s were made from L6 tool steel until a change to 440C in 1979.

Sheaths were oiled brown or died black, or green leather from 1966 to 1986.
They were made from black nylon after that.
Early sheaths had the retainer strap crossing over the rear guard. They often got cut off by accident, and all later sheaths had the strap crossing over the front guard.

Some leather sheaths had a pocket for a steel sharpening hone.
The divers sheath had slots top and bottom for leg straps and a rubber flap handle retainer.

In all, 16 variations of sheaths were used at different times.

There were also 5 different “Presentation” models offered at different times.
All of those have a serial number preceded by either XX, or CS to prevent anyone faking an earlier, rarer, and more desirable early knife.

During the 90's production was off again, on again until finally, the MK-II was dropped from the line in 2000.
Finally Gerber added the MK-II back to the line in 2008.
http://www.gerbergear.com/Tactical/Knives/Mark-II-Knife_22-01874



6 3/4” - MK-II made in 1977
Black blade, Black sheath, Armor Hide handle.



6 3/4” - MK-II made in 1978
Polished blade, Armor Hide handle.
Oiled reproduction sheath I made for it.
I bought it cheap at a gun show, without the sheath.



MK-I - 5” Boot Knife made about 1977.


I bought it cheap from the guy that bought it new.
He then proceeded to cut himself bad at work that night, while scratching it all up on a sharpening stone.
The night nurse taped his finger back on, but it scared him so much he was afraid to take it out of the sheath again.
So he sold it to me at a big loss the same day he bought it!!


Gerber 5” Folding Hone


The folding steel hone is 5”x7/8”x1/4”.
If the blade is already sharp, it makes it really sharp!
If it isn’t already sharp, it doesn’t do anything.
Wedge on end can supposedly be used to split wood, etc.
But I wouldn’t try it.
It is so short I think you would just get it stuck in the wood, then need to find something else to split wood with to get it out.

rc

__________________

Choot'em Lizabet! Choot'em!!


Last edited by rcmodel; 11-16-2012 at 07:24 PM.
rcmodel is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-17-2012, 02:33 AM   #89
rcmodel
Grand Poobah
 
rcmodel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Eastern Kansas
Posts: 9,364
Liked 80 Times on 59 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default The Giant Humongous Two-handed Scimitar

I bought this thing off a flea market junk table years ago.
Why?
No idea, except my wife wanted it.

She had me make her a pair of oak hangers and mount it on the kitchen wall right over the breakfast bar.

(I’m here to tell ya, you don’t want to get in an argument with her over your poached egg on toast & orange flavored Metamucil either!)







I have no clue who made it, or why?
If you have any ideas what it was made for, I’d like to hear them?

It is hand forged, 3/8” thick at the tang, with a 11 ¼” blade, 20 ½” OAL, and weighs over 2 pounds.
It has a taper tang, and tapered blade.

Unfortunately, whoever forged it apparently didn’t know much about steel selection, or tempering.
I tried using it for brush clearing once, but the blade edge flaked out like a flint arrow head every hit on a little green sapling.

Oh well!
My wife still likes it 20 years later!
She even takes it down and dusts it occasionally.

Sometimes, she even gets The Thousand Yard Stare while dusting it and looking at me.

I would love to get rid of it.
But it would leave holes in the kitchen wall I’d have to patch if I took it down.

rc

__________________

Choot'em Lizabet! Choot'em!!


Last edited by 3wbdriver; 11-17-2012 at 06:11 PM.
rcmodel is offline  
lklawson Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-17-2012, 05:28 PM   #90
rcmodel
Grand Poobah
 
rcmodel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Eastern Kansas
Posts: 9,364
Liked 80 Times on 59 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default WWII – The Cattaraugus 225 Q Commando

The Cattaraugus 225 Q Commando was also known as the Quartermaster knife in WWII, and was in fact the strongest utility knife in general use.
(Although Case made a similar model, the 337-Q)

The 6” blade is nearly a ¼” thick, and would serve quite nicely as a pry-bar for opening crates.
Or the nearly ½” thick checkered steel butt cap as a hammer to nail them back shut again.

They all came with a left-handed sheath, one of the few WWII knives I'm aware of that did.





WWII magazine adds:




This one was purchased by my dad in a troop ship’s store on the way to the Philippines in 1943.
He carried it through the rest of the war, and made it back alive with it two years later.

When I was about 7 years old, he spent one evening sharpening it razor sharp on an old whet stone to use to butcher a hog the next morning.
That didn’t turn out so well, as his blood slick hand slipped past guard, and he cut three fingers clear to the bone!

After that, he put it up and let it be until I was old enough to commandeer it for my growing military knife collection.

This is the second sheath it has worn, as the original succumbed to South Pacific jungle rot when I was still a boy.
I bought & sold a few decent 225 Q’s over the years, until I finally got one with a real good sheath I put dads old knife in.
I sold the other one without a sheath on eBay for more than I paid for it.

rc

__________________

Choot'em Lizabet! Choot'em!!

rcmodel is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Go Back   KTOG - Kel Tec Owners Group Forum > Other > Accessories

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Letter of the year! wow6599 The Counter 38 08-12-2009 08:19 PM
the letter... artimus_prime The Counter 3 06-19-2009 04:16 AM
NRA Letter. lynx_strife The Counter 20 05-09-2008 05:53 AM
This is about my letter to KT and the PF9 Nakanokalronin The Counter 0 05-01-2007 09:03 AM
A Letter To The FAA (joke) adversary13 The Counter 3 09-30-2004 06:15 PM