You are Unregistered, please register to use all of the features of thektog.org    
KTOG - Kel Tec Owners Group Forum > KelTec Products > PF-9 >

A question on defensive rounds and practice

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-08-2017, 10:56 AM   #11
CJP32
Grand Poobah
 
CJP32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,593
Liked 374 Times on 317 Posts
Likes Given: 6

Default

Most likely it's the mag catch spring. It's strange that it started when you used the +1 and it wasn't the magazine. Is there any chance you were pushing the mag catch without realizing it?
__________________
CJ

Two is one and one is none.
CJP32 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-08-2017, 11:40 AM   #12
grade8holsters
 
grade8holsters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 37
Liked 13 Times on 10 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Does the gun have a metal mag release, or plastic? Test with a magnet if you're not sure. This was a problem with older PF9s that had plastic mag releases.

Also, how are you gripping it? When I hold mine with the old-fashioned "cup and saucer" grip, my thumb is in direct contact with the mag release. I don't shoot this gun that way.
grade8holsters is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-08-2017, 11:57 AM   #13
grade8holsters
 
grade8holsters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 37
Liked 13 Times on 10 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

And as far as I know, the only common PF9 issue caused by mag followers is failure to lock the slide open after firing the last round (caused by excessive follower wear and a subsequent inability to engage the slide lock).
grade8holsters is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-08-2017, 02:15 PM   #14
Pinstriper
Grand Poobah
 
Pinstriper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Orygun
Posts: 1,354
Liked 168 Times on 129 Posts
Likes Given: 320

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayb514 View Post
I've only had mine for a little over two weeks. I've put a 100 round box of federal through it, 8 rounds of Hornady Custom 124 gr xtp and not a hiccup.

I want to try some Federal 124 gr hst. Funny thing happened during my search for this round. I went to a local range where the guy behind the counter said it would be a waste. He said the pf9 is not an expensive gun. It wasn't meant to be a range gun. Just find what is reliable and stick with that. He said all hollow points are basically the same. Some may expand more than others big whoop. They're all gonna hurt and shot placement and reliability is what counts. He actually said that all this shooting paper is bs and it goes right out the window when a real defensive situation occurs.

Now, there is truth in much of what he said. I take issue, however, with the notion that because the pf9 is not $500 it cannot or should not be fired a lot. How can I get used to the gun and practice with it if I don't shoot it and shoot it a lot? My reaction in a defensive situation has to be muscle memory based. I have had officers and federal agents tell me that when the moment comes if you have to think you'll probably miss or not even get the shot off. The question before the court is this: Am I crazy or is he wrong?
Yes and no. Most of it has been said, and well. I particularly agree with Beastly, and will piggyback there with just a few points:

1. Indeed not all HP are equal. But a "better performing" HP that doesn't function in your particular pistol is of no value whatever. Reliability >>> terminal performance. Don't get soured on the pistol just because it happens not to like brand/model xxxx that you hoped for. Start from the "best rated" rounds and test for reliability and work your way down until you have one that functions reliably. My personal benchmark is 200 rounds without a failure. YMMV. Do this AFTER you can do it with ball, so you can tell the difference between a problem with your pistol, your technique, or just that particular ammo.

2. A PF-9, or ANY super small/light handgun is without a doubt a handicap to learning the basics of shooting, and so a poor choice as an "only" gun. It will easily teach you bad habits. So, yeah, "range gun" defined as something that can not only stand up to hundreds of rounds per training session, but isn't so difficult to shoot well that it holds you back from learning good grip, trigger control, sight picture, and follow-through.

But as said, you absolutely also need to practice with it, to maintain its reliability as well as your technique. The technique isn't DIFFERENT so much as it just won't tolerate errors, particularly in grip, that a larger/heavier pistol would.

3. The PF-9 will never be a "range gun" in the bullseye competition sense. Trying to make it do so with techniques like "staging" a long double-action trigger pull is counterproductive, particularly to its purpose as a defensive pistol.

From the above perspectives, the staffer wasn't out-and-out wrong, just a bit over-broad in what they said.
__________________
Let's eat, Grandma !
Let's eat Grandma !

Punctuation. It saves lives.
Pinstriper is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-08-2017, 04:33 PM   #15
jayb514
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 22
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

It has the plastic mag release. I'm positive I was not pressing the button while gripping the weapon. I altered my grip several times and watched my hands rather than the target while firing. I even one hand gripped it and my fingers were nowhere near the button.

I'm going to call customer service tomorrow morning.
jayb514 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-08-2017, 05:07 PM   #16
mtn_chef
 
mtn_chef's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: nc mountains
Posts: 336
Liked 78 Times on 67 Posts
Likes Given: 59

Default

Jay,
sorry to hear about the range day. The extensions don't always work with every pistol. Also the original statement about the "range gun" part has a little to do with this factor. You may have a malfunctioning mag release. The fit of the extension, allows the user- when death gripping this snappy little pistol to actually cause the light weight polymer to flex enough to make the mag pop out sometimes.
I went thru this with my Pf-9 as well. Additionally as I spent about 500 rounds breaking in and learning this gun, aggressively practiced mag changes; smacking and shoving the mag in there quickly and forcefully. By the time I acquired my extensions (250 rds in) I had worn enough of the little shoulder off that when I put the extensions on, and gripped the hell out of the pistol. I got the same effect you are experiencing. You can remove and inspect the mag release, Kel-tec has great customer service and will get you a new one easily; if that's the issue. I had two extensions, replaced the worn mag release and still had issues with one, so I gave up on that one. Now I have 3 standard capacity and one extended magazines. They all functioned after I replaced the mag release and 86'd the offending extension.
I also learned pressing the mag release when inserting will help keep and preserve the life span your mag release, in a defensive use...by all means slap that extra mag home. During practice, preserve the state of your firearm. I also added a hogue jr grip sleeve to mine so I didn't have to death grip it so much.
Lastly don't get discouraged. No, the PF-9 isn't a glock or service grade pistol made to fire thousands of rounds and be abused. But several of us here have had a kink or two and had to iron out what ever issues there were. Some have performed flawlessly for thousands of rounds. At the end of the day you are in the right direction learning the in's and out of your carry system. And you've already found the KTOG so don't put it up on an auction site yet. Mine is carried now almost daily. Feel free to see in my older posts how I got my tuned and working flawlessly now. Good luck and keep us posted.
__________________
That which does not kill us only makes us stronger...
mtn_chef is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-08-2017, 05:26 PM   #17
haugrdr
Grand Poobah
KOG_MODERATOR.png
 
haugrdr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Daytona Beach
Posts: 14,665
Liked 2007 Times on 1506 Posts
Likes Given: 1374

Default

It has the plastic mag release? Are you sure? Kel Tec quit using the plastic one many years ago.

On the button of the mag release is there parallel lines or concentric circles?
__________________
Rick
Occupation: Retired
Lifestyle: Biker
"It is, what it is."
haugrdr is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-08-2017, 06:11 PM   #18
jayb514
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 22
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Thanks for the encouragement chef. I truly appreciate your advice. This pf9 is my attempt at a deep concealment pistol. I have a baby eagle 40 that I have carried for years. I had been looking for a 9mm and found this used on gbroker for $250 with the Crimson Trace. I figured I couldn't go wrong for that price.
When I got her, the rear sight was all the way over to the right side of the slide. The laser sight was way over to the left.

I am not a gunsmith, but I'm generally mechanically inclined. I am no Jerry Miculek, nor would I consider myself a complete novice. I could change the magazine release and hopefully that will be the end of the issue. I was hoping to make this my edc. It may get there one day but right now I can't do that. I'm not giving up on her though and am going to do what I can to get her back in action.

Haugrdr, it is definitely the plastic one. I bought this used so it very well may be a much older gun. I uploaded a close up.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20170108_140957.jpg (75.2 KB, 40 views)

Last edited by jayb514; 01-08-2017 at 06:18 PM.
jayb514 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-08-2017, 10:09 PM   #19
mtn_chef
 
mtn_chef's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: nc mountains
Posts: 336
Liked 78 Times on 67 Posts
Likes Given: 59

Default

For $250 with the laser you stole it... that's awesome. Between the fluff and buff, a mag release swap and the northwood trigger job I've learned a ton with mine and enjoy carrying it. Several of us here at work all have our concealed carry permits and the PF-9 vrs .380 pocket carry motivated two of my friends here to switch to 9mm. I think KelTec will just mail you the Mag release considering you've the older plastic one.
Don't be surprised if they ask you to just send the gun in too, while it will be 4-6 week turn around; you'll have the whole thing returned in a like new condition. There's been minor changes to some of the design and they might just bring it up to date, rather than have the dated components.
Don't know if you got a manual with it our not, but don't put cheap steel cased ammo thru it, bad for the chamber.
__________________
That which does not kill us only makes us stronger...
mtn_chef is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-08-2017, 10:28 PM   #20
CJP32
Grand Poobah
 
CJP32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,593
Liked 374 Times on 317 Posts
Likes Given: 6

Default

I would replace the mag catch and spring for sure. I didn't even think about it being plastic. It's not that hard if you have some small needle nose pliers and a few picks. You don't have to remove the frame from the grip either. Make sure you wear safety glasses, the spring hit me right in the eyeball when I changed one of mine.
__________________
CJ

Two is one and one is none.
CJP32 is offline  
Pinstriper Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Go Back   KTOG - Kel Tec Owners Group Forum > KelTec Products > PF-9

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Preferred Practice and Defense Round? FortunateSon PF-9 28 01-21-2012 07:15 PM
Weak hand practice question gordon11 P-3AT 13 08-10-2011 11:01 PM
Why 33 Rounds Makes Sense In A Defensive Weapon PshootR The Counter 10 02-15-2011 03:34 PM
Cheap practice ammo question- coloradowildman Sub9 and Sub2000 Rifles 27 01-27-2009 07:12 PM
Dry Fire Practice - Question? Shep PF-9 2 09-13-2007 03:43 AM