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Old 02-11-2006, 02:17 PM   #1
cactus_jack
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Default PF-9 vs P-3AT

Why 9mm? *Here are the DPX test comparisons for 9mm from a P-11 and 380 DPX from a P-3AT.

Notice the difference in Penetration!

10% Ballistic Gelatin Tests for:
Corbon 9mm 115gr. DPX

Testing Platform:
Keltec P11

Barrier:
4 Layers of Denim


TEST RESULTS:

Round # 1:
Penetration: 13.00"
Recovered Weight: 115.6 gr.
Expansion*: .677 cal.
Velocity: 1212 fps


========================

10% Ballistic Gelatin Tests for:
Corbon .380 80 gr DPX

Testing Platform:
Keltec 3AT

Barrier:
Four Layers of Denim


TEST RESULTS:

Round # 1:
Penetration: 6.75€
Recovered Weight: 80.8 gr.
Expansion*: .732 cal.
Velocity: 958.6 fps

* Expansion measured at widest point.







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Old 02-11-2006, 02:23 PM   #2
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Default Re: PF-9 vs P-3AT

Sure there are plenty good reasons to go for the 9X19. However, if I have to wear a vest or something to cover up, I may as well get something even bigger. Sorry, the new PF-9 is just way too big for deep concealment/pocket carry. Aside from being a little narrower, I just don't see the improvement over the P-11.
Why not take about 3/4" off the grip and barrel length to get it down to pocket pistol size?
I was hoping for something maybe only slightly bigger than the P3AT.

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Old 02-11-2006, 03:21 PM   #3
cactus_jack
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Default Re: PF-9 vs P-3AT

Quote:
Originally Posted by rongaudier
I just don't see the improvement over the P-11.
Why not take about 3/4" off the grip and barrel length to get it down to pocket pistol size?
I was hoping for something maybe only slightly bigger than the P3AT.
IMO The P-32/P-3AT trigger is a huge advantage over the P-11 trigger.

I do agree about the size though.




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Old 02-11-2006, 05:23 PM   #4
Beach
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Default Re: PF-9 vs P-3AT

Quote:
Originally Posted by cactus_jack

IMO The P-32/P-3AT trigger is a huge advantage over the P-11 trigger.

I do agree about the size though.

And far more drop safe to boot.

The slim grip will likely work better for women and men with really small hands.

The light weight is just awesome. No doubt in my mind, its a huge improvement over the P11. I am hoping for a PF40 as well, that would be sweet.
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Old 02-11-2006, 05:26 PM   #5
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Default Re: PF-9 vs P-3AT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beach
I am hoping for a PF40 as well, that would be sweet.
That would be cool, but I saw in another thread where ktwm said that a 40 cal round would not fit in the PF mag.

So, that makes the larger caliber conversions a significant factor in keeping the P11 alive.
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Old 02-11-2006, 08:27 PM   #6
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Default Re: PF-9 vs P-3AT

Quote:
Originally Posted by TxCajun
That would be cool, but I saw in another thread where ktwm said that a 40 cal round would not fit in the PF mag. *

So, that makes the larger caliber conversions a significant factor in keeping the P11 alive.
Then I believe that KT should return the P-11 platform to .40 cal and 9mm w/conversion kits in either direction..

It would be great to be able to walk into a gun shop and buy a HC P-40 again.. ;D
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Old 02-11-2006, 08:30 PM   #7
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Default Re: PF-9 vs P-3AT

I agree, but I doubt they are willing or able to handle all the returns of perfectly functioning pistols by people who can't shoot them. * :-/

Perhaps if the P40 mags only came with finger extensions ala the PF9. *;D

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Old 02-11-2006, 08:44 PM   #8
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Default Re: PF-9 vs P-3AT

Quote:
Originally Posted by TxCajun

Perhaps if the P40 mags only came with finger extensions ala the PF9. *;D
+1

Plus the Owners manual can inlude a complete description of Limpwristing and the malfunctions it can cause. It can also include a brief description of how to hold the weapon and such..
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Old 02-11-2006, 10:41 PM   #9
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Default Re: PF-9 vs P-3AT

These pistols are closer in size that I realized. Could be the PF-9 is pocketable:

P3AT (380 apc)
Weight (no mag): 8.3 oz
Length: 5.2 in
Height: 3.5 in
Width: .77 in
Capacity: 6 +1 (optional +1 ext)
Trigger Pull: 5 lb

Kel-tec PF-P (9x19mm)
Weight (no mag): 12.7 oz
Length: 5.85 in
Height: 4.3 in
Width: .88 in
Capacity 7 +1
Trigger Pull: 7.5 lb

Differences:
Weight: 4.4 oz
Length: .8 in
Height: .65 in
Width: .11 in
Capacity: 1 or zero
Trigger pull: 2.5 lb

The biggest difference between the P3AT and PF-9 is the weight differential of 4.4 oz. Both use the same hammer block system. The PF-9 has a slide lock while the P3AT does not.

For comparison purposes, here are the stats on the P11:

P11 (9x19mm)
Weight: 14 oz
Length: 5.6 in
Height: 4.3 in
Width: 1 in
Capcity: 10-15 +1
Trigger Pull: 8.5 lb

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Old 02-11-2006, 11:37 PM   #10
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Default Re: PF-9 vs P-3AT

I guess I'm a bit puzzled about the rationale for the PF-9. The P3AT fills the niche of a true pocket pistol better. The P11 is hardly a brick, weight-wise, compared to the new pistol, and carries almost twice as many rounds--both of these smallish 9mm's would be equally good in an IWB or OWB rig. If, in fact, the PF-9 is going to replace the P-11, I'm not sure if the "improvements" outweigh what will be lost. Am I missing something?

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