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Old 03-23-2008, 05:29 AM   #1
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Default Pistol Caliber Bullpup-KEL-TEC Future Prod Survey

Not sure if this is the right place so please move if not.

I was looking back a some old posts and one stuck out about a Future Product Survey. There was alot of things discussed but the one that got me thinking was the Pistol Caliber Bull-pup.

I started looking around on the Internet for all the other Bull-pups and Carbines out now or in the past and the thing that kept coming back was that alot of people said "I like it for X, Y and Z reason but I have to carry seperate mags for it because it doesn't match my favorite pistol, That's why I didn't buy one!

Any pistol caliber longarm you put out there will have a small customer base you are shooting at unless you can make the longarm with the ability the adapt to any or alot of pistol magazines.

A changable, detachable magazine fixture that would allow you to order the rifle from your Dealer and order the magazine fixture from Kel-tec or if that is not feasible then order the fixture from a second company or even the company that made their pistol.

The engineering for the fixture is already done if you copy the way the pistol takes its magazines. And you as a company should be able to make one version of the longarm in each caliber and it would make inventory easier since you don't have to keep track of how many for A mag you have or B or C mags you need this week.

This I think would be the toughest of the problems out there. The other would be that you have to make something different than everything that has been done before or people just say "I like it, but my %#^&*%^ is just as good and I don't feel like changing."

The RFB is a good place to start. It would have to be made to handle +P and +P+ loads, 16" barrel, 26" overall length, 5-5 1/2 lbs in weight, and other things I'm sure you guys don't need me to tell you about.

What do you think, or am I way off base here??

Brian

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Old 03-23-2008, 08:35 PM   #2
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Default Re: Pistol Caliber Bullpup-KEL-TEC Future Prod Sur

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSCOUT6945
Any pistol caliber longarm you put out there will have a small customer base you are shooting at unless you can make the longarm with the ability the adapt to any or alot of pistol magazines. *
I don't think shooting at your customer base is a good market strategy no matter the magazine used.
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Old 03-23-2008, 09:57 PM   #3
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Default Re: Pistol Caliber Bullpup-KEL-TEC Future Prod Sur

And I think a bullpup pistol caliber carbine that uses interchangable pistol mags would end up having to be longer than necessary to make the 26" minimum length requirement if you set the magazine back behind the pistol grip. *Most of the current production pistol caliber carbines already load the mag in the grip, and are already as short as legally possible. *Might make a nice concept, but I don't think it would make economical sense.

Nice idea though.


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Old 03-24-2008, 12:12 AM   #4
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Default Re: Pistol Caliber Bullpup-KEL-TEC Future Prod Sur

Well, If you can go with a longer barrel in it you can push the bolt/chamber area back farther toward the rear. I guess that certain cartridges would be able to make use of the longer barrel better than others (i.e. 357 SIG, 9mm +P+, 30 Carbine)

What is the longest barrel a 9mm/40 S&W/45 ACP could use efficiently by the way??

Brian

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Old 03-29-2008, 01:35 AM   #5
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Default Re: Pistol Caliber Bullpup-KEL-TEC Future Prod Sur

I believe 16" was determined to be the optimum for 9mm and .40 S&W sized rounds, but I cannot produce empirical evidence. *Sorry. *I think it would be a neat looking weapon with a stick mag ala Sten or Thompson, I just don't see it happening. *At least not to be marketed to us untrustworthy civilians anyway. *I've wanted an SU16 D model since I first saw them. *Alas I'm not LEO or military, and that's all they sell those to.

:-/

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Old 03-29-2008, 02:23 AM   #6
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Default Re: Pistol Caliber Bullpup-KEL-TEC Future Prod Sur

Any civilian can buy a "D" model if they get the correct tax stamp from the ATF, and live in a state that allows it. You just need to find a class 3 dealer that will accept your money and fill out the paperwork for you.


The "optimum, most efficient length" for any round really depends on the powder load. A +P round will do better in a longer barrel. I'm sure more than 16" is optimum for a +P round (9mm or 40). even if the barrel is longer than optimum, you will still get extra velocity from the longer length, even if you only get a few FPS from the last few inches.



A pistol caliber bullpup would likelly have a barrel longer than 16". *26" is the minimum legal length (and plenty short for a rifle IMO). you need at least 3 times the length of the cartridge behind the barrel for cycling of the round so a 9mm bullpup could have about a 22" to 23" barrel which would produce quite a bit of velocity.


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Old 03-29-2008, 03:31 AM   #7
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Default Re: Pistol Caliber Bullpup-KEL-TEC Future Prod Sur

As for the question asked, I'm not sure there would be a lot fo interest. Kel-tec already produces a short pistol caliber carbine that is popular (sub2k). although it is not identical to a bull pup, it can be kept short until just before firing. Just seems like if kel-tec is going to make the investment to produce a new product, it should be looking for sales that it doesn't already have.

now a p3at or pf9 in .22 to let us practice and still save on ammo...that's a good idea.

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Old 03-29-2008, 04:20 AM   #8
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Default Re: Pistol Caliber Bullpup-KEL-TEC Future Prod Sur

I'd buy a Kel-Tec pistol caliber bullpup carbine, just for the heck of it. Could be a lot of fun. But I think a Kel-Tec rifle caliber bullpup is going to be a better weapon. Still looking forward to the RFB.

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Old 04-06-2008, 06:21 AM   #9
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Default Re: Pistol Caliber Bullpup-KEL-TEC Future Prod Sur

OK, I thought alot about what all you have said here. I even went back and read tons of the posts on the SUB2000 forum.

An idea that keeps coming up on the forums is the fact that alot of people want the SUB2000 in calibers other than 9mm and 40 S&W. Lots of mentions of 45 auto, 10mm, 357 Sig and even a couple for 357 mag and 44 mag.

The design of a carbine that from the ground up could take these calibers would (I think, and I may be wrong) justify the cost of designing and bringing it to market.

If it was designed for the power of a 44 mag or if that was too much the 357 mag that would allow it to handle the 357 Sig, 10mm, 45 auto, 30 Carbine and probably alot more.

If you didn't want to make it in 9mm and 40 S&W because it would take away from sales of the SUB2000 then we could live with that. :'(

BTW, I think a PF-9 in 22lr or a conversion kit for that would be awesome too.

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Old 04-06-2008, 07:20 AM   #10
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Default Re: Pistol Caliber Bullpup-KEL-TEC Future Prod Sur

I still like the idea of a Super Subbie, a SUB-2000 scaled up to handle more powerful cartridges.

.357 magnum and .44 magnum don't work well in a semi-auto because of the rimmed case heads, but the .357 Sig, .45 ACP and 10mm would all be popular calibers. Glock makes pistols for all three, and there are plenty of others. The basic SUB-2000 design may work in a beefed up version. The more powerful calibers would probably need a heavier bolt. These are powerful calibers for a blowback operated weapon.

I'd definitely buy a 10mm version.

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