KTOG - Kel Tec Owners Group Forum > KelTec Products > PMR-30 > 22LR vs 22magnum round?
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Old 08-10-2012, 04:52 PM   #11
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What's the model number though? 10/22 isn't the model number. Like I said when you put 10/22 into google you come up with all different model luger 10/22's.
Dude, 10....22....Carbine. Did you go to the Ruger website? http://www.ruger.com/products/1022Carbine/models.html 1103 is the hardwood blued version. 1151 is the synthetic blued version. 1256 is the synthetic stainless steel version. They will all work as a base to start with. The main reason you are seeing so many Ruger 10/22's is because people have put so many different aftermarket stocks and things on them. Yes, Ruger makes some different 10/22's that are bull-barreled or take-down versions, but they are not the carbine.

This was my gun when I first bought it... the 10/22 Carbine #1103. So yeah, now it looks very different.
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Old 08-10-2012, 05:05 PM   #12
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If you really want to step up Google Volquartsen Customs.

Also some at Varmint Extreme.
http://www.varmintextreme.com/

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Old 08-10-2012, 06:09 PM   #13
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I don't have a PMR-30 but I do have a couple of handguns capable of firing .22 Magnum. In the last, few months I have been doing some very informal (water jug) testing to see how various WMR ammo will perform from handguns. Some folks are of the opinion that .22 Mag doesn't have that much of an advantage over .22LR when fired from a short barrel such as found on most handguns. I disagree - especially now that both Speer (Gold Dot) and Hornady (Critical Defense) offer WMR ammo that is optimized for handguns/shorter barrels.

If you are interested in how the Speer and Hornady perform from a handgun, you might want to take a look at posts #3, #4 and #33 in this thread:

http://www.thektog.org/forum/f100/wmr-rifles-mini-revolvers-243077/

My guess is that the results I posted in post #33 - informal tests of each from my 6.5 inch barreled Heritage Rough Rider - would probably translate more closely to what I would expect from the PMR 30 than would the results from my mini revolver in the earlier posts. As the Speer expanded well from both platforms, both expanded well from the Heritage and both gave at least decent penetration (with the Hornady giving penetration from the Heritage that I would call 'good'), I would say that there is no, real comparison between the right WMR ammo - even from a handgun - and a .22LR.

Of course, you aren't likely to want to plink with the more expensive WMR ammo and even the less expensive stuff that is said to work well with a PMR isn't exactly 'cheap' - although, let's be honest, at Wally World prices CCI Maxi-Mag (for instance) is still cheaper than any centerfire 'plinking' ammo with the possible exception of 9mm. It really just comes down to how you want to use the gun.

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Old 08-10-2012, 06:13 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by rickeltec View Post
Nice with the 50 round drum on it would resemble a tommy gun. Now I so want one.
There are actually 'conversion kits' available to make a 10/22 look like a Thompson submachine gun:

http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/ruger-thompson-submachine-gun-conversion-kit/

Myself, I have other .22 rifles but I'd kind of like to have a 10/22 just as a platform for the M1 Carbine conversion kit:

http://www.eabco.com/m1_carbine_ruger_1022_tribute.htm

Of course, some of the conversion/appearance kits cost as much as (or even more than) the 10/22, itself.
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Old 08-10-2012, 06:37 PM   #15
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Dude, 10....22....Carbine. Did you go to the Ruger website? http://www.ruger.com/products/1022Carbine/models.html 1103 is the hardwood blued version. 1151 is the synthetic blued version. 1256 is the synthetic stainless steel version. They will all work as a base to start with. The main reason you are seeing so many Ruger 10/22's is because people have put so many different aftermarket stocks and things on them. Yes, Ruger makes some different 10/22's that are bull-barreled or take-down versions, but they are not the carbine.

This was my gun when I first bought it... the 10/22 Carbine #1103. So yeah, now it looks very different.
Ok, thanks I thought I would be able to buy one that was more or less like yours. Didn't realize you had modded it that heavily. Does the carbine work with the 50 drum mag without adjustment?
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Old 08-10-2012, 06:56 PM   #16
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Found these sweet conversion kits for 10/22. http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/prod/Ruger_10_22_Conversion_Kit

So, I could just buy a ruger 10/22 carbine, a conversion kit and then I just take off the original parts and slap on the kit? Any special tools needed, or gunsmithing knowledge that if I lack will f up the rifle?

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Old 08-11-2012, 09:02 PM   #17
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Ok, thanks I thought I would be able to buy one that was more or less like yours. Didn't realize you had modded it that heavily. Does the carbine work with the 50 drum mag without adjustment?
You don't have to adjust anything to use the drums or extended magazines. They will work in a stock 10/22. Sometimes they are picky with ammo (requiring use of lead round nose ammo). Ruger's BX-25 magazines are the best because they match the feed angle of the stock 10 round magazine. With those I can use any ammo. With drum mags, the BDM drum mag is the only one I know of that works reliably, but with that I do have to use lead round nose stuff (like remington thunderbolt). When I do it cycles all 50 rounds completely.
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Old 08-11-2012, 09:04 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by rickeltec View Post
Found these sweet conversion kits for 10/22. http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/prod/Ruger_10_22_Conversion_Kit

So, I could just buy a ruger 10/22 carbine, a conversion kit and then I just take off the original parts and slap on the kit? Any special tools needed, or gunsmithing knowledge that if I lack will f up the rifle?
No gunsmithing or special skills required for most conversions. Like you said, "Just take off the original parts and slap on the kit." Most come with easy instructions to follow. I can recommend the tapco kit, but there are so many other options.
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Old 08-11-2012, 09:43 PM   #19
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Some folks are of the opinion that .22 Mag doesn't have that much of an advantage over .22LR when fired from a short barrel such as found on most handguns. I disagree - especially now that both Speer (Gold Dot) and Hornady (Critical Defense) offer WMR ammo that is optimized for handguns/shorter barrels.
The Speer Gold Dot and Hornady CD are indeed good ammo choices and do achieve better MV than most 22WMR's of similar weight. Still, I don't think that they have entirely lived up to the marketing hype. Based on various chrony reports I've read they can be expected to reach up to around 1,300 fps maximum from a PMR-30 (but some guy with a 6" automag averaged closer to 1,200 fps, maybe just a bad batch? Let's hope so). There are 22lr rounds of the same weight that can go toe to toe with or even beat them when fired from a rifle. Take the CCI 22lr 40gr velocitors for instance. They easily achieve 1,400 fps. Remington 22lr 33gr Yellow Jackets achieve 1,500 fps. And then you can get CCI 22lr 32gr stingers that achieve over 1,600 fps. If you drop down in bullet weight for the .22WMR, you can get fast ammo like CCI 22WMR 30gr Maxi-Mag +V's or Hornady 22WMR 30gr V-Max's. When fired from the PMR-30 they can also achieve over 1,600 fps, which is still reachable by the 22lr stingers.

So, in my opinion the "22lr rifle vs 22WMR handgun" comparison is a valid one however you look at. Take the best ammo available for both, and you see that the best .22WMR ammo from a PMR-30 is basically equal in terms of velocity/energy with the best .22lr rounds from a rifle. Not that that is a bad thing. Having the capability to do that with a handgun is awesome! It's like shrinking my 10/22 into a handgun without compromising ballistics, and that makes for a viable self-defense/survival tool capable of more than just suppressive fire if needed. Whether it's a single accurate hit, or multiple hits, it can kill or at least significantly degrade an attacker's ability to fight. Some new real-life data has come out that shows surprisingly similar stop-rates for all types of handgun ammunition in most cases (contrary to the old Marshall and Sanow dogma). In short - people don't like getting shot, regardless of the size of the bullet.


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My guess is that the results I posted in post #33 - informal tests of each from my 6.5 inch barreled Heritage Rough Rider - would probably translate more closely to what I would expect from the PMR 30 than would the results from my mini revolver in the earlier posts.
I agree that the results would be closer to those of a PMR-30, but keep in mind that the PMR-30 stock barrel is 4.3". The velocity out of a 6.5" barrel is certainly going to be higher than out of a 4.3" barrel, regardless of the revolver cylinder gap. That's a 2.2" difference which is significant in handguns, less so once you reach rifle barrel lengths. With 22WMR out of a 6.5" barrel, I would certainly expect the balance to shift more in favor of the 22WMR like you have seen in your testing. That being said, I would like to see some chrony results out of the new 5" threaded barrel I have in my PMR-30.

THE BOTTOM LINE HERE ON THIS WORN-OUT TOPIC (not directed to anyone in particular)- Within the last couple weeks it is now my opinion that we really are splitting hairs with this debate. The PMR-30 is fun and cheap to feed. Let's just shoot it and not be overly concerned with the 22lr from a rifle vs the 22WMR from a handgun debate. I think that it all stems from disrespect for the 22lr round to begin with, and wanting to be convinced of the all around superiority of the 22WMR regardless of the weapon used to fire it. In reality, even the puny 22lr round still deserves respect. Even out to 300 yards it can do more damage than most people think.

Two good videos here. 1st one is a test out to 300 yards to see 22lr penetration and damage to meat under layers of denim. 2nd one is short range using a 22lr pistol through a human skull (guy swears at end of video in case you are at work or something).


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Old 08-12-2012, 01:18 AM   #20
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What's the model number though? 10/22 isn't the model number. Like I said when you put 10/22 into google you come up with all different model luger 10/22's.

I think there is some confusion here. The Ruger 10/22 is the model and there are several different versions available from Ruger. But none look like the one shown. That is a 10/22 with quite a few after market parts added on and is not a version available from Ruger. What the poster has done is buy a standard 10/22 and modify it with such after market parts as a retractable stock, magazines, pistol grip, forearm grip, etc to make it look like it does.

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