Originally Posted by JAB
Some folks are of the opinion that .22 Mag doesn't have that much of an advantage over .22LR when fired from a short barrel such as found on most handguns. I disagree - especially now that both Speer (Gold Dot) and Hornady (Critical Defense) offer WMR ammo that is optimized for handguns/shorter barrels.
The Speer Gold Dot and Hornady CD are indeed good ammo choices and do achieve better MV than most 22WMR's of similar weight. Still, I don't think that they have entirely lived up to the marketing hype. Based on various chrony reports I've read they can be expected to reach up to around 1,300 fps maximum from a PMR-30 (but some guy with a 6" automag averaged closer to 1,200 fps, maybe just a bad batch? Let's hope so). There are 22lr rounds of the same weight that can go toe to toe with or even beat them when fired from a rifle. Take the CCI 22lr 40gr velocitors for instance. They easily achieve 1,400 fps. Remington 22lr 33gr Yellow Jackets achieve 1,500 fps. And then you can get CCI 22lr 32gr stingers that achieve over 1,600 fps. If you drop down in bullet weight for the .22WMR, you can get fast ammo like CCI 22WMR 30gr Maxi-Mag +V's or Hornady 22WMR 30gr V-Max's. When fired from the PMR-30 they can also achieve over 1,600 fps, which is still reachable by the 22lr stingers.
So, in my opinion the "22lr rifle vs 22WMR handgun" comparison is a valid one however you look at. Take the best ammo available for both, and you see that the best .22WMR ammo from a PMR-30
is basically equal in terms of velocity/energy with the best
.22lr rounds from a rifle
. Not that that is a bad thing. Having the capability to do that with a handgun is awesome! It's like shrinking my 10/22 into a handgun without compromising ballistics, and that makes for a viable self-defense/survival tool capable of more than just suppressive fire if needed. Whether it's a single accurate hit, or multiple hits, it can kill or at least significantly degrade an attacker's ability to fight. Some new real-life data has come out that shows surprisingly similar stop-rates for all types of handgun ammunition in most cases (contrary to the old Marshall and Sanow dogma). In short - people don't like getting shot, regardless of the size of the bullet.
Originally Posted by JAB
My guess is that the results I posted in post #33 - informal tests of each from my 6.5 inch barreled Heritage Rough Rider - would probably translate more closely to what I would expect from the PMR 30 than would the results from my mini revolver in the earlier posts.
I agree that the results would be closer to those of a PMR-30, but keep in mind that the PMR-30 stock barrel is 4.3". The velocity out of a 6.5" barrel is certainly going to be higher than out of a 4.3" barrel, regardless of the revolver cylinder gap. That's a 2.2" difference which is significant in handguns, less so once you reach rifle barrel lengths. With 22WMR out of a 6.5" barrel, I would certainly expect the balance to shift more in favor of the 22WMR like you have seen in your testing. That being said, I would like to see some chrony results out of the new 5" threaded barrel I have in my PMR-30.
THE BOTTOM LINE HERE ON THIS WORN-OUT TOPIC (not directed to anyone in particular)- Within the last couple weeks it is now my opinion that we really are splitting hairs with this debate. The PMR-30 is fun and cheap to feed. Let's just shoot it and not be overly concerned with the 22lr from a rifle vs the 22WMR from a handgun debate. I think that it all stems from disrespect for the 22lr round to begin with, and wanting to be convinced of the all around superiority of the 22WMR regardless of the weapon used to fire it. In reality, even the puny 22lr round still deserves respect. Even out to 300 yards it can do more damage than most people think.
Two good videos here. 1st one is a test out to 300 yards to see 22lr penetration and damage to meat under layers of denim. 2nd one is short range using a 22lr pistol through a human skull (guy swears at end of video in case you are at work or something).