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Old 06-24-2011, 01:57 PM   #1
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Default Sub 2000 WWB Problem

Well I tried out my sub 2k the other day at the range, also brought my PF9
And well below is what it did to some Winchester white box (WWB) ammo.
It kept having FTE (Failure To Extract) malfunctions.

It would slam the slide on an empty casing and try load one at the same time.
The Federal 9mm I used worked perfect but the WWB had all the problems.




ALSO just noticed these small cracks, are everyone sub2k's like this or did the shell casings do this?

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Old 06-24-2011, 04:10 PM   #2
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Default Re: Sub 2000 WWB Problem

I cannot make out any "cracks" in you picture, so I cannot tell whether what you have is common, or not.

However, mine does not have anything that I would call "cracks," so it is probably not common, nor normal, whatever you are seeing. * ;D

If you keep slamming the bolt on mis-ejected cartridges, I would not be surprised to see damage occur, though, just my 2c. * :

Anyway, I have seen some FTE on my 9mm Sub2K, as well. *It has only happened to me on the last round of a full magazine. *The first time out, no problems at all. *Maybe 60-75 rounds when I bought it.
Second time, I experienced the FTE on the last round of the full magazine, happened both with the stock 10-round Glock magazine, as well as with a 33-round (Glock fctory) mag. Always the final round.
100+/- rounds.
Gave it a thorough cleaning, occurred a little less frequently, and did not happen if I did not fill the magazine to full capacity (i.e. 5 rounds in a 10 round mag = no issue).

I am wondering if this is result of not getting the action area cleaned sufficiently (but only after 150+/- rounds?), or a flaw in the machine? *:P

I might add, this was all with cheap (UMC and Federal cheap) ammo. *Will consider higher grade, but at 60 rounds (or more) per minute, that could get expensive! *:'(

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Old 06-24-2011, 04:41 PM   #3
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Default Re: Sub 2000 WWB Problem

I don't see the cracks you are talking about either, but I have had cases embed themselves in the plastic in the ejection window, so I presume that's what you're talking about. It leaves little cut marks on the plastic.

I think after you clean the gun a few times, shoot a few times, learn to keep it pressed hard against your shoulder so the bolt recoil can do what it's supposed to do, and use good magazines, you will find the FTE a much less common problem. I will still have one every so often, and occasionally have to pry one out that has embedded itself in the plastic, but it's much less often than it was in the beginning. I am actually not all that willing to believe that the WWB is the problem, because after loading a different brand of ammo into the magazines, you might have been holding the gun differently on the next brand, and that could have changed everything.

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Old 06-24-2011, 05:57 PM   #4
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Default Re: Sub 2000 WWB Problem



That may be little cut marks then, as long as it does not affect the function of the firearm its fine with me.

Trust me, i was keeping it pressed against my shoulder the way I was supposed to, I had also brought my 12 gauge and after the FTE's kept happening I just switched to that for a bit and have never had a problem with fte on it, only ftf which was a spring issue.

I switched between the wwb and the federal and only the federal did not have problems the wwb was the problem.
I will be going again next week and I will try the federal again and report back to see if that in itself was the issue.

But the magazine thing bothers me... I dont want to load 5 out of 10 rounds... I want to load 10. But maybe the 17 round would be fine. If its a 17 round I think I would be ok with loading 15 rounds.

It is one hell of a shooter though. Right out of the box where I was aiming thats exactly where the hole went.
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Old 06-24-2011, 06:18 PM   #5
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Default Re: Sub 2000 WWB Problem

About how many rounds would you estimate you have shot through the S2K so far? *It seems from reading the forum that this is a gun that improves after an initial breakin period.

But to answer your question:

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Old 06-24-2011, 07:42 PM   #6
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Default Re: Sub 2000 WWB Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by DFWDave
About how many rounds would you estimate you have shot through the S2K so far? *It seems from reading the forum that this is a gun that improves after an initial breakin period.

But to answer your question:
ooh, ok good. That makes me feel better .
As long as it will function flawlessly (not break) then its fine with me.

I would say I put about 250 through it yesterday.

How many would be a good "break in"?
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Old 06-24-2011, 11:49 PM   #7
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Default Re: Sub 2000 WWB Problem

200 is considered a normal break in for these. *Some 9mm Subs have problems fully cycling 115gr bullet rounds during their initial break in because the recoil spring is designed to work with both 9mm and .40 S&W, which has a harsher recoil impulse than 9mm. *I usually recommend trying 124gr or 147 gr bullets for break in on 9mm but you are already past that point.

The Glock 10 round magazine has shown a tendency to have FTE/FTF problems on the last round, and this could be happening with the 33 rd mag also. *In the 10 round mag changing to a Gen 3 follower seems to help. *On the 33 rounder, if yours is a Korean made one a new GLOCK or Wolff mag spring should fix it. *If yours is an actual Glock made 33 rounder, then it just may need to be worked in.

A LOT of FTE's generally indicates a mechanical problem with the Sub or - as much as I hate to say it - a form of limp wristing, which I see you have already answered. *But it is something to consider on your next range session.

Hope this was some help and welcome to the forum. *

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Old 06-25-2011, 04:33 AM   #8
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Default Re: Sub 2000 WWB Problem

Agreed with 3wbdriver. But it's the same advice I got when breaking in new guns - which is to use heavier grains in the first few hundred rounds.

I pretty much use 124gr as my primary ammo and only use 115gr when there's nothing available (I bought a few thousand rounds when it was a bit cheaper so I got ample supply).

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Old 06-25-2011, 05:28 AM   #9
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Default Re: Sub 2000 WWB Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggDawg
I might add, this was all with cheap (UMC and Federal cheap) ammo. *Will consider higher grade, but at 60 rounds (or more) per minute, that could get expensive! *:'(
It should be remembered that this is a $300 carbine with polymer parts surrounding the action areas. *It is NOT a $900 AR, and any kind of consistent rapid fire will eventually bring something in it to a failure. *It's an excellent little carbine and very reliable, but if you want something to fire thousands of rounds with buy a gun that costs as much or more than your ammo bill for 1 year. *Think of it as racing the Baja 1000. *You're not going to do that with a Prius. *You're going to buy a TRUCK. *

I know this has nothing to do with the current topic, but when I saw the line above I felt I had to address it. *WWB is fine as range fodder and I shoot it more than anything else. *But it is very dirty, especially in a blowback action like the Sub, so more cleaning will be needed when you use it.

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Old 06-25-2011, 01:02 PM   #10
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Default Re: Sub 2000 WWB Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3wbdriver
[quote author=BiggDawg link=1308923867/0#1 date=1308931859]I might add, this was all with cheap (UMC and Federal cheap) ammo. *Will consider higher grade, but at 60 rounds (or more) per minute, that could get expensive! *:'(
It should be remembered that this is a $300 carbine with polymer parts surrounding the action areas. *It is NOT a $900 AR, and any kind of consistent rapid fire will eventually bring something in it to a failure. *It's an excellent little carbine and very reliable, but if you want something to fire thousands of rounds with buy a gun that costs as much or more than your ammo bill for 1 year. *Think of it as racing the Baja 1000. *You're not going to do that with a Prius. *You're going to buy a TRUCK. *

I know this has nothing to do with the current topic, but when I saw the line above I felt I had to address it. *WWB is fine as range fodder and I shoot it more than anything else. *But it is very dirty, especially in a blowback action like the Sub, so more cleaning will be needed when you use it.

[/quote]

Yeah I have not rapid fired mine yet, I take it slow and steady
I do have my 5.45x39 ak but I love this little 9mm bugger xD
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