KTOG - Kel Tec Owners Group Forum > Other > Other Guns > Hollow Point penetration/expansion test
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-21-2009, 08:31 PM   #1
KelTex78
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 459
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default Hollow Point penetration/expansion test

This is a follow up to my initial Golden Saber review from the P3-AT section. After having to wait a month between shots to collect enough jugs to shoot one more round, I got tired of waiting and decided to try the wet phone book method instead. This gave me an opportunity to try out a lot more than I would otherwise. All shots were fired from point-blank range. The lineup was a follows, from left to right: Remington Golden Saber in .380, MagTech First Defense in .380, Glaser Safety Slug in .357 Magnum, Speer Gold Dot in .357 Magnum, and Winchester White Box JHP in .45 ACP.



First up, the Remington Golden Saber in .380, fired from my LCP! Contratry to the water jug test, wet paper produced a much more pronounced effect. Three shots were fired, and they all penetrated between 10" and 10.5"! Nice consistency with decent penetration. As you can see, one opened more nicely than the others but all opened to some extent.



Next, my first .380 round tested, the MagTech First Defense. Shooting into the paper showed that the sharp-edged hollow points of this round had a cookie-cutter effect that punched a nice little dot of cardboard plugging the hollowpoint; neither of these rounds opened as nicely as my earlier round through the water jugs. What really concerned me was the penetration; once penetrated 11.5", while the other only penetrated 7.5".



Next are the Glaser Safety Slug, Speer Gold Dot, and Winchester .45 JHP. The Safety Slug penetrated 10"; the jacket opened unevenly and only some of the shot was released. The Gold Dot did what it was supposed to do and produced a perfect expansion with a penetration of 8". The Winchester .45 ACP JHP also penetrated 8" while producing even expansion.



Bill, I hope that these help restore faith in your Golden Saber ammunition. And to everyone else, shot placement and reliability are critical, but at the same time I like knowing just how the bullet is going to behave when it hits a target. And also, it's a lot of fun! I had a blast doing this test! I have more pictures at full resolution if anybody wants to see anything in particular!

Edited 12/24/09 to show pictures again...

__________________
KelTex78 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-21-2009, 09:58 PM   #2
wow6599
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Hollow Point penetration/expansion test

Remington Golden Saber is the only JHP ammo I use. Better than most give it credit for, IMHO.

__________________
 
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-21-2009, 10:19 PM   #3
lop
Grand Poobah
KOG_SUPPORTER.png
 
lop's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 7,192
Liked 478 Times on 394 Posts

Default Re: Hollow Point penetration/expansion test

Wow, interesting. Both the .380 and the .357 bloomed nicely, and the .380's went in farther. They must be the better and stronger bullet. :-?
Any guesses on why this obviously wrong conclusion seems to be indecated by the data?
I love doing these kinds of test. I strongly recommed it to any new / newish shooters. You really get a feel for what the gun (s) is / are doing. Shot guns from different distances are amazing also.
Thanks KelTex for the info and pics.

Do any of Youse guys remember the Sapranos episode where they took a phone book and put in on someone's chest and fired a snubbie .38 into it? Freeked the person out of course, and the shooter said " Be glad you don't live in a smaller town". (psst, thinner fone buks)

__________________

So, do we have a count down clock for Fido '15?

lop is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-22-2009, 12:25 AM   #4
KelTex78
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 459
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default Re: Hollow Point penetration/expansion test

Quote:
Originally Posted by lop
Wow, interesting. Both the .380 and the .357 bloomed nicely, and the .380's went in farther. They must be the better and stronger bullet. *:-?
Any guesses on why this obviously wrong conclusion seems to be indecated by the data?
A couple of things here... First, the .357 opened to a diameter of ~.6" while the best .380 only opened to ~.5". Second, the .357 magnum is the Speer Gold Dot for short barreled guns. I can't say for certain, but it doesn't seem to have the same recoil and blast as a full-power magnum load. I also don't want to rule out measurement error as it was done by sticking a dowel into the hole and measuring how far it went in before I met an obstruction. And finally, a sample size of '1' is not the most scientific. I just didn't feel like using more $1.00/shot ammunition while it is so hard to find right now... :-/
__________________
KelTex78 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-22-2009, 12:31 AM   #5
lop
Grand Poobah
KOG_SUPPORTER.png
 
lop's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 7,192
Liked 478 Times on 394 Posts

Default Re: Hollow Point penetration/expansion test

Amen to that. I shot just a few .22's today, and some .177 air pellets. : Not a lot of Booming today.

__________________

So, do we have a count down clock for Fido '15?

lop is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-22-2009, 02:46 AM   #6
billjohnso20
Grand Poobah
KOG_SUPPORTER.png
 
billjohnso20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,772
Liked 48 Times on 37 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default Re: Hollow Point penetration/expansion test

KelTex78,
Thanks for doing some more testing and for the well-written report. I haven't lost all hope with the GS .380 round. I have researched a few other rounds and have decided to add the Hornady Critical Defense round to my carry rounds. I'll be using the two rounds in my guns and in my carry mags. I have three mags for the P3AT and four your the Elsie Pea. I'm still relying on the GS now though till I can get to the range. I've got a Laserlyte laser coming from Battlebug. I plan to put it on my XD SC 40S&W. When I get it and get it mounted, I'll go to the range and get it all taken care of at that time.

On the other/original thread, some thought I was putting too much emphasis on bullet performance. I don't; that's why I carry the .380. Shot placement is the most critical factor. That said though, I bullet that reliably expands isn't a bad think. In fact, it's a great thing!

__________________
billjohnso20 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-23-2009, 02:03 AM   #7
KelTex78
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 459
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default Re: Hollow Point penetration/expansion test

Here's a bonus; this is the first round I ever tested. It's a 230 gr. Speer Gold Dot in .45 ACP fired into water jugs. IIRC, it penetrated into the fourth 1 gallon jug. Speer obviously knows what they are doing!

__________________
KelTex78 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-23-2009, 02:21 AM   #8
MirageES
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 196
Default Re: Hollow Point penetration/expansion test

Quote:
Originally Posted by KelTex78
Here's a bonus; this is the first round I ever tested. It's a 230 gr. Speer Gold Dot in .45 ACP fired into water jugs. IIRC, it penetrated into the fourth 1 gallon jug. Speer obviously knows what they are doing!

Was that round +P? I found some Speer Gold Dot 230 gr. +P in .45 ACP 50 count for about $30. If that round you have in the pic was +P then I know it would be good to recommend it to my friend who is looking for good SD ammo.

Edit: I looked again, and saw that the +P is 200 gr. not 230 gr. Please disregard my question.
__________________
MirageES is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-23-2009, 05:26 PM   #9
big_dog
Grand Poobah
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 780
Default Re: Hollow Point penetration/expansion test

I have done some impromptu testing in the past my self, 9MM and 45ACP from Remington bulk packs and Winchester White box, all the the most economical Ammo there is, All so they were all JHP.......115 grn and 230 grn respectively...All performed as well and in some case's better than the Exocit high priced Ammo........These Manufacturers have been in business for a long time making quality Ammo, And Firearms.....So I guess if you want to spend a lot more money on the Slick marketing one's, than feel free to do so............I use Win and Rem most all the time and Have never felt under gunned............I have said in the past, and I will say it again..How dead is Dead?.......I don't think a Bad Guy will care if he or she is shot dead with a thirty dollar a box Ammo or a twenty dollar box,............Do you?

__________________
big_dog is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-23-2009, 07:54 PM   #10
shottingcouple
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 345
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts

Default Re: Hollow Point penetration/expansion test

Quote:
Originally Posted by KelTex78
Here's a bonus; this is the first round I ever tested. It's a 230 gr. Speer Gold Dot in .45 ACP fired into water jugs. IIRC, it penetrated into the fourth 1 gallon jug. Speer obviously knows what they are doing!


Gold Dot is all I carry 9MM or 45acp after seeing thier resilts in ballistic Jell
__________________
shottingcouple is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Go Back   KTOG - Kel Tec Owners Group Forum > Other > Other Guns

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Latest opinion on .380 penetration v.s. expansion oldgranpa P-3AT 65 05-02-2014 03:34 AM
*Pics* Water Jug Expansion Test YooperP3at P-3AT 1 03-18-2010 08:11 PM
**Photos** Bullet Expansion Test (non-scientific) YooperP3at P-3AT 1 03-25-2009 11:18 PM
.45 or .40 hahaha yep. Expansion and Penetration wild_cat_mccane Other Guns 33 07-10-2008 10:02 PM
Penetration vs. Expansion rford1 P-3AT 4 09-30-2005 03:04 PM